Back to the Border 2011

[Ronbass]

Border Security and Immigration Enforcement activists need to sue the enablers in court or indict them through peoples grand juries.
Legal action seems to be the only legal way to force these people to do their jobs and obey the constitution or remove them from their positions.

But the question was asked previously; where are the lawyers on our side.

If we don't try it we'll never know whether it will work.

The other side has been dragging us into court for many years now.

A NJ County Sheriff told me that he would not enforce immigration laws agains illegal aliens because he did not want to be sued civilly for racial profiling and then have to come up with about $60,000 to defend himself.

As a matter of fact Arizona got dragged into court and lost the first round.

Sued by the two biggest race hustlers in the country at this time. Obama and Holder.

The civil rights movement has got this country in a strangled hold.

They sue us and we sue nobody.

Instead of going for the big fish like Napolitano, Holder or Obama we should practice on lesser enablers so we can get the hang of it, then as we get better at it go for the big ones.

I'm in: What organization do I send my first donation to.

[ilbegone]

Originally Posted by Ronbass

Border Security and Immigration Enforcement activists need to sue the enablers in court or indict them through peoples grand juries.
Legal action seems to be the only legal way to force these people to do their jobs and obey the constitution or remove them from their positions.

But the question was asked previously; where are the lawyers on our side.

If we don't try it we'll never know whether it will work.

The other side has been dragging us into court for many years now.

A NJ County Sheriff told me that he would not enforce immigration laws agains illegal aliens because he did not want to be sued civilly for racial profiling and then have to come up with about $60,000 to defend himself.

As a matter of fact Arizona got dragged into court and lost the first round.

Sued by the two biggest race hustlers in the country at this time. Obama and Holder.

The civil rights movement has got this country in a strangled hold.

They sue us and we sue nobody.

Instead of going for the big fish like Napolitano, Holder or Obama we should practice on lesser enablers so we can get the hang of it, then as we get better at it go for the big ones.

I'm in: What organization do I send my first donation to.

There is nothing organized for bringing legal action against governmental immigration scofflaws that I know of. I bring it up because it may be possible and because we don't seem to have all the tools we need.

Years ago, in the old SOS, I brought up what I believe to be the necessity of having a legal defense fund. I think it was drowned in all the shouting by some about "blood in the streets" and other stuff I view as unnecessary and exploitable.

Look at how "they" are doing it - and toss aside anger and perhaps even hatred - look at it dispassionately; anger gets in the way of judgment and can be used against you.

As racist and far out there as many of "they" are in the pro illegal movement (and get away with it), they have one thing going for their movement. "They" are dedicated and they don't give up - they believe in what they do. They have a goal, they chip here and there, and they hang on to whatever they have gained. it adds up, and even though a number of them make their living off of racial discord and skimming undoubtedly occurs accumulating wealth doesn't seem to be a large factor in what most of them personally do for their cause.

There is a lot of pro bono and low cost on the pro illegal side.

And they put their egos aside and work together. Mostly, it is not about "I". The far left American political spectrum in general is not about "I", and they get much assistance from it.

Because of the backlash in the 60's against about much of what was before and worming their way into government, as minority organizations they have access to grants and funding just not accessible to us. There will be a lot of effort into continually campaigning for funds from the public. And, the donars will need to see results.

An organization to which members and others entrust with donations has to be accountable for the funds. One side of the house takes the money in and accounts for income, the other side pays the bills and accounts for expenditure. The middle accounts for the the flow between the two. And there are audits by at least two who are not a party to either side or the middle. Embezzlement will kill any effort - if not immediately, it will once suspicion and accusations go public.

And it has to be about illegal immigration and those who aid and abet it. Once cannonades of "Hispanics doing this", "Mexicans doing that", "blood in the streets" and "armed revolution" rhetoric along with conspiracy theory a la "you know who" are unleashed credibility is damaged and it will be used to chip out the organization.

Personal differences and disagreements need to be taken care of out of public sight, and everything has to be squeaky clean or the ship goes down.

Illegal Mexican and other foreign nationals are tools of pro illegal "activists", they are not the organizers nor are they the attorneys who chip away at immigration law and immigration enforcement. Nor are they the "educators" who tell children that race requires loyalty to a foreign nation, sell ethnic nationalism to kids, and spin brown racism as "cultural pride". The distinction needs to be understood that while illegals need to be prevented from entering and need to be deported, it is American citizens of all races who create the draw and aid and abet illegal migration. Nor, as hard as some work to make it so on both sides, illegal immigration is not about race. Although primarily from families with generations of American citizenship and few or no immediate ties to current illegal migrants, there are plenty of Brown skinned people with Spanish last names who don't really sympathize with illegal aliens. That is, until some white yokels get loud with them with the "go back to Mexico" treatment when many of them might never have been to Mexico even as a tourist - and many who did were ripped off and screwed with even more than Mexicans will sometimes do to white Americans in Mexico: because Ortega or Gonzalez born In America somehow turned his back to Mother Mexico, even if he might eat beans with tortillas.

We don't need racial alienation.


Just my two cents.

[wetibbe]

Originally Posted by Ronbass

Border Security and Immigration Enforcement activists need to sue the enablers in court or indict them through peoples grand juries.
Legal action seems to be the only legal way to force these people to do their jobs and obey the constitution or remove them from their positions.

But the question was asked previously; where are the lawyers on our side.

If we don't try it we'll never know whether it will work.

The other side has been dragging us into court for many years now.

A NJ County Sheriff told me that he would not enforce immigration laws against illegal aliens because he did not want to be sued civilly for racial profiling and then have to come up with about $60,000 to defend himself.

As a matter of fact Arizona got dragged into court and lost the first round.

Sued by the two biggest race hustlers in the country at this time. Obama and Holder.

The civil rights movement has got this country in a strangled hold.

They sue us and we sue nobody.

Instead of going for the big fish like Napolitano, Holder or Obama we should practice on lesser enablers so we can get the hang of it, then as we get better at it go for the big ones.

I'm in: What organization do I send my first donation to.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>

Ron:

First thanks for participating.

Judicial Watch is probably the most aggressive law firm that sues the government,

IRLI is also very active.

The NRA-ILA also sues but for gun issues.

I have a couple of others who E-mail me regularly asking for donations.

On the mater of volunteers for the border we note your position. You believe that it has become too dangerous for volunteers.

Lets examine.

* The regular military will not go due to Posse Comitatus.

* The National Guard are all volunteers. These are working stiffs who are called up from their civilian jobs.

* The difference in volunteers is that the Militias/Minutemen are civilian volunteers who are unpaid by the government while the National Guard are civilians paid by the government.

* The border is too dangerous for volunteers but these volunteer's come from the same well spring, our red blooded Americans.

* For my part if the border is too dangerous for one it is also too dangerous for the other.

[Ronbass]

The Posse Comitatus Act does not prohibit US Military on our borders.

US Military is allowed as authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress
http://www.unitedpatriotsofamerica.c...5/default.aspx

[ilbegone]

They were on the border in a limited fashion for anti drug smuggler duties before, but it seems it was withdrawn after the kid was killed. I would like to see them there, but I see this to be the main publicly verbalized objection to deploying military along the border. The argument against would be formulated around posse comitatus about Using the military against US citizens. As I recall, Posse Comitatus came about because of the Union occupation using the Military for policing the south after the Civil War with the connotation of the Army being used against against American citizens. The kid was a US citizen.

It's like a war zone from what I understand, we could use them there.

One link to the incident of the kid who died: http://www.ndsn.org/july97/goats.html, I haven't researched enough to draw an opinion of whether it's slanted or not, I just remembered the incident a few minutes ago. I think the article dates it in 1997.


Edit in: I posted this before I read Ron's link to the posse comitatus - the link is a great read, adressed the argument against posting troops on the border.

[wetibbe]

Originally Posted by Ronbass

The Posse Comitatus Act does not prohibit US Military on our borders.

US Military is allowed as authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress
http://www.unitedpatriotsofamerica.c...5/default.aspx

Great article. I agree completely. But we will need a totally new Government before anything like that happens.

Interestingly a Pentagon spokesman testified before Congress last week and offered DOD assistance with the border invasion !!

Now the shocker. Here-to-fore 230 cities in the USA were said to be have the Cartels operating within. The newest just out is - 1,238 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ilbegone]

Originally Posted by wetibbe

Great article. I agree completely. But we will need a totally new Government before anything like that happens.

Interestingly a Pentagon spokesman testified before Congress last week and offered DOD assistance with the border invasion !!

Now the shocker. Here-to-fore 230 cities in the USA were said to be have the Cartels operating within. The newest just out is - 1,238 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes, I agree, and it's the key to meaningful immigration enforcement:

But we will need a totally new Government before anything like that happens.

The bums need to be ejected from public office.

Bill, can you cite your sources for the pentagon spokesman and the cartel expansions? I really like the first - it's good news, the second needs to be confirmed and disseminated.

[wetibbe]

Originally Posted by ilbegone

Yes, I agree, and it's the key to meaningful immigration enforcement:



The bums need to be ejected from public office.

Bill, can you cite your sources for the pentagon spokesman and the cartel expansions? I really like the first - it's good news, the second needs to be confirmed and disseminated.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>

Pentagon spokesperson William Wachsler:
The threat is so great that the assistant Defense Secretary offered federal legislators military assistance in the name of protecting national security.

http://www.federalobserver.com/2011/...er-assessment/


Mexican Drug Cartels Operating in at Least 1,286 U.S. Cities


Written by Kelly Holt

Tuesday, 19 April 2011 11:03


On April 13, All Headline News reported that the influence of Mexican drug cartels operating in U.S. cities is growing because cartel members are becoming residents. Roberta Jacobson, Deputy Secretary of State for Mexico and Canada, brought this information to a political forum in Washington, D.C., quoting a March 27 report from the Justice Department. The findings are also being widely disseminated in the Mexican media




http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews...business-in-us

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Jim Gilchrist said:

Deployment of U.S. Army into northern Mexico
The time to deploy U.S. Army Airborne Rangers into Mexico to eliminate the criminal cartels headquartered there is long overdue.

We do not need permission from the Mexican government, much of which is as corrupt as the criminal cartels harbored there,to launch a military incursion into that country. All that is apparently necessary for a unilateral decision to insert U.S. troops into a foreign country is that such country is deemed a clear and present danger to the United States.

Mexico, the hub of both the lethal drug distribution throughout North America and the importation of millions of illegal aliens into our communities, has been a "clear and present danger" to the domestic tranquility of the United States for several decades.

Because Mexico has been unable or unwilling to stop the exodus of illegal aliens and criminal drug cartels from its country into the United States, our nation's domestic tranquility, its coveted governance by rules of law, and economic well-being are at serious risk of becoming fading principles of a fading civilized society.

Any sincere political office holder would defend our homeland and its heralded way of life and not succumb to "mob rule"...that "mob" being about 30 million illegal aliens (mostly from Mexico and Central America)who currently occupy U.S. territory.

This blatant invasion and defiance of our laws has proliferated rapidly over the past two decades against the will of the electorate and with the cooperation of incompetent, cowardly, collaborating politicians who have no leadership skills and no business holding public office.

It is time to deploy the Army Rangers into Mexico if we want to preserve ourselves as a sovereign nation with justice for all.

Jim Gilchrist, Founder and President, The Minuteman Project

[ilbegone]

Thank you for the info, Bill.

Ron,

I looked into the grand jury thought I presented - it won't work under the circumstances - they would have to be sued civilly.

As I understand it:

A grand jury is selected from a jury pool and convened by a prosecutor to determine if there is probable cause to file charges.

OK... Federal prosecutors work for Obama... not a snowball's chance in hell for an indictment for obstruction of immigration law.

I'm going to check into judicial watch and see if federal employees can be successfully sued for obstructing immigration law.