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Immigration Pushed To The Forefront Again.... Thanks! To Everyone Who Has Propelled This Issue To Its' Rightful Position. Years Of Hard Work Are Paying Off.....Keep Up The Good Work!......
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  #11  
Old 09-08-2010, 12:51 PM
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ilbegone ilbegone is offline
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Originally Posted by Twoller View Post
Agreed. Although I am weak on the notion of our culture being "American". I think we need to be more specific than that.

Our culture is the culture of the United States Citizen. Our culture is the culture of citizenship.

It's true, there are a lot of word games going on. Increasingly I think the idea of being an "American" does not include anything like being a US citizen any more.

Not only is our culture the culture of US citizenship, but we advance the idea of national citizenship for other countries as well and respect their citizenship no matter what their race. Most peoples deserves a country they can call their own that respects the borders of others as well as their own. This is a respectable enough notion that people are willing to lie about their claims to nationalism, just as people lie about claims to citizenship.
I'm not slamming you in this post, just some commentary.

American culture does change to some extent as time goes on. 1830's America was not quite the same as 1780's America, just as the early 20th century was not the same as America in the 1950's.

However, there was a continuity of something which came out of the English Civil War (fought on both sides of the Atlantic) which infused itself into a dynamic, classically American essence of American culture. However, that is being chipped away by our education system and instant gratification of short attention spans.

I would agree that we are a nation of citizens rather than a nation of immigrants, but I'm not sure if the definition of culture is that of "citizenship" as opposed to "American".

In this context I am reminded of all those people who join Fraternal organizations not because of any great desire to to be helpfully brotherly or exert oneself towards the purported charitable goals of those organizations, but rather to take benefit of the "economy boozing" to be found in many of those organizations.

So they join up for cheap drinks and spend their time forming cliques and stabbing each other in the back.

It seems that same scenario is what America is all about anymore.

God, did I just depress myself.

I'm going to go have a drink...
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  #12  
Old 09-08-2010, 03:00 PM
DerailAmnesty.com DerailAmnesty.com is offline
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Originally Posted by ilbegone View Post
I keep saying it...

Brown supremacists need "evidence" of "white bigotry".

All it takes is just one of those nazi goofballs to show up and the media jumps on it when they would otherwise ignore the crowd. The issue of illegal migration morphs into that of racial hatred. Race obsessed "Latino activists" smear border control advocates and paint a picture of "the white man is out to get YOU!" to their target audience.

The most key point to your assertions is the quotes around evidence.

Evidence? Only the most scant is required, and anything that's missing from substance they'll be more than happy to fill in with sh - - they've made up out of whole cloth.

To the most rabid on the Left, of the type that repeatedly confront or oppose us at our public appearances, here is the "evidence" of our racism - A) We're Caucasians who B) disagree with them. And to any SOS member who does not fall into category "A," be advised that your problem is that you're a house slave/coconut/race traitor/Tom/Tio Taco who is embarrassed by, or in denial of, your heritage.

The point: We will never convince the most rabidly opposed to employment and immigration law enforcement otherwise. Never. The value of your actions and the merits of what you have to say count for nothing. Their minds and hearts are made up. They will accuse us of racism to the bitter end.

Therefore, attempting to "look good" in front of the enemy is practically pointless. It's like trying to keep the extremist Muslims happy by shutting up this would-be Quran burning pastor in Florida. Folks, they hate us already and what we do or don't do won't convince them to love us (outside of maybe killing ourselves)

Just like PAM said, the press is going to interview the old white folks anyway, and somehow, the TV cameras are quite likely to miss the waving Mexican flags and ugly racial invectives being mouthed by the opposition. I've seen it too many times.

Therefore, why do we bother to toss out white supremacists when they try to snake their way into our events? Especially if they're not noticeable.

Because it's the right thing to do. The accusations made about us are not true. We rid ourselves of the bigots in our midst because we're better than the opposition. We don't embrace our worst elements in the same fashion as the Green Party and Socialist folks welcome Brown Berets and Mexica Movement members to their gatherings. We're not with white nationalists because that's not what we're about. Real racism is found among the open borders zealots, not us.
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Old 09-08-2010, 03:28 PM
Twoller Twoller is offline
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Originally Posted by DerailAmnesty.com View Post
....

Therefore, why do we bother to toss out white supremacists when they try to snake their way into our events? Especially if they're not noticeable.

Because it's the right thing to do. The accusations made about us are not true. We rid ourselves of the bigots in our midst because we're better than the opposition. We don't embrace our worst elements in the same fashion as the Green Party and Socialist folks welcome Brown Berets and Mexica Movement members to their gatherings. We're not with white nationalists because that's not what we're about. Real racism is found among the open borders zealots, not us.
Well said. Another distinction to be made between the anti-illegals and the open borders is that guilt is not a motivator. The white pro-illegals are motivated by a sense of guilt and are afraid of purging the non-white racists. The anti-illegals have nothing to worry about there. To be anti-illegal has no natural relationship with race. Illegal immigrants are not distinguished by race, just the fact that they are here without permission or invitation by citizens. White racists who claim some kind of solidarity with anti-illegals clam up whenever you start talking about white illegal immigrants. They are all for open borders, but for white people between "white" countries only.
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Old 09-08-2010, 03:56 PM
PochoPatriot PochoPatriot is offline
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We are not multi-cultural here. One Culture; American. We may be multi-racial though.
A term definition is needed here. I believe in "soft" multi-culturalism". This means that people of various cultures are respected, but never given a superior position. There are different cultures in this country that though "American" have unique characteristics. Hard "multi-culturalism" is the state in which all non-white cultures are given a superior position, and white culture is denigrated and disparaged.
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  #15  
Old 09-08-2010, 11:24 PM
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The point: We will never convince the most rabidly opposed to employment and immigration law enforcement otherwise. Never. The value of your actions and the merits of what you have to say count for nothing. Their minds and hearts are made up. They will accuse us of racism to the bitter end.
This is true. There is no convincing the terminally rabid.

However, there are those among "Latino" citizens who aren't totally poisoned by "Latino advocates" who benefited from Johnson and Nixon's continuing and greatly accelerated "affirmative action" policies and now loudly pretend forty years later that it's still 1954 in terms of racial equality.

In allegorical terms, you might call them "independents" as compared to "democrats" and "republicans", the swing vote you might say.

Does it make a crap whether we have people around us who confuse them with illegal aliens and are just as rabidly racist as "Latino advocates" are when the press isn't around?

It does.
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SOMETIMES IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.

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Last edited by ilbegone; 09-08-2010 at 11:29 PM.
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  #16  
Old 09-09-2010, 05:51 AM
wetibbe wetibbe is offline
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Default Oversimplification !

Customarily there is an oversimplification to the basic attitudes about immigrants. Dealing with two basic categories. 1. Americans. 2. Foreigners:

AMERICANS:

* The attitudes of Americans towards immigrants covers a wide spectrum. One basic concept is political. The spectrum is from left to right, liberal to conservative. It also encompasses the prevalent political parties, Republican, Democrat, and to lesser degrees, independents, constitutionalists, communists and several other minors.

a). The Americans can be categorized as religious - Churches and Congregations, politicians - Federal and State Senators, Congressmen, Attorneys Generals, US Attorneys, Aldermen, Free Holders, Assemblymen,Law enforcement - Police-Sheriffs, District Attorneys, City, Town, Village officials and the various councils, committees, legislators, Mayors, Business owners, Corporations, domestic and multi-national, farmers, dairy's, tree/plant/flower nursery's,retailers, supermarkets, restaurants, hotels/motels, rental accommodations/rooms/houses construction...................................... .................. ad infinitum.

1) Each of these has a different agenda, a different attitude, a different opinion. Some see only economic exploitation, some see the opportunity to fill pews and collection plates, some have a personal conviction of one sort or another, some see voters, some are anxious to ensure a steady supply of illicit narcotics and addicting substances........................................ ............... ad infinitum.

2) The apparent majority of these that are aware are ready willing and able to aid and abet illegal aliens one way or another and are completely committed to place those desires, convictions and aspirations above the law. Willing to run the risks until caught and prosecuted and not before.

3) There are some in law enforcement and public office that are willing to enforce the laws and some who are not.

FOREIGNERS:

* The foreign immigrants come from 197 countries. The illegal aliens come from the majority of these same countries. The head count has been estimated by some organizations as possibly 1 million per year.

1) Legal foreigners come for many reasons. To work, to marry, for asylum, to rejoin families, for religious freedom, for political freedom.

2) Some of these foreigners join with other foreigners and Americans to form lobbyists, pressure groups, advocates, organizations that have designs of one form or another on the USA, intending to bend it to their models, liking, aspirations by overt and hidden means and methods. Some are political, some are economic and some are terrorists. All try to advance their personal agendas by one means or another, legally or otherwise.

3) Illegal aliens come for various reasons from the majority of these countries. They are separated by DHS, CBP, into two broad categories: Mexicans and OTM's. The Mexicans comprise about 60% of the illegals. Of the balance a majority come from Latin countries in Central and South American and the Caribbean. The balance come from a broad range of countries all over the world and from all continents. Probably the majority come for economic reasons but those reasons are both legal and illegal. Some are already criminals escaping prosecution, pedophiles, human and drug traffickers and smugglers but universally the basic underlying reason is almost always some form of economic gain.

4) Of the illegals and legals, including the Americans, the Mexicans are the most active in fomenting political and economic mayhem in the USA. There are at least 6 basic categories. Some dream of Aztlan, some want to retake the territory, some do not, some aspire to political and economic dominance, some do not. Mexico is implementing the plan CONAPO to inject 25 to 35 million Mexicans into the USA in the next 30 years. It is a form of Germany's territorial expansion Lebensraum *( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebensraum )

By the year 2050 it is projected that minorities will overtake white Americans and become the majority. Rhodesia *( Zimbabwe ) and South Africa are examples of what to expect vis-a-vis black/brown on white. Some of them have already said it !

Last edited by wetibbe; 09-09-2010 at 06:19 AM.
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  #17  
Old 09-09-2010, 09:59 AM
Twoller Twoller is offline
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...
Rhodesia *( Zimbabwe ) and South Africa are examples of what to expect vis-a-vis black/brown on white. Some of them have already said it !
No, that's ridiculous. In Zimbabwe and South Africa and the rest of Africa too, even the Muslim colonized territories, Africans are the natives and have always outnumbered the colonists. Always. The historic, cultural, economic and political momentum has always been and will forever be in their hands. Their relatively recent struggles with colonizers and their real imperialist sponsors (with the exception of the Dutch South Africans) are of no long term consequence, but only if they can seize the initiative outside of colonial influence.

Illegal immigrants, no matter how they dominate demographically in the United States will ever have any kind of real meaning here, except as they are licensed to have by power holders. They have no cultural roots here and are not really interested in establishing any. The best they can manage or neighborhood facades and cultural adornments. The best representative of who they are will always be where they came from, not where they are at. And to the extent that legal immigrants share their cultures, they will exist here the same way.

At the roots of the United States of America is resistance against colonization. We were born from it and we will shake it off again if we have to. Floods of people dumped here will not be enough to restrain us or dampen our resolve or confound a solution.
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  #18  
Old 09-09-2010, 10:19 AM
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ilbegone ilbegone is offline
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Mexico is implementing the plan CONAPO to inject 25 to 35 million Mexicans into the USA in the next 30 years.
CONAPO is a department of the Mexican government, Consejo National de Poblacion - National Population Council.

Quote:
El Consejo Nacional de Población, por mandato de la Ley de Población, tiene la misión de regular los fenómenos que afectan a la población en cuanto a su volumen, estructura, dinámica y distribución en el territorio nacional, con el fin de lograr que ésta participe justa y equitativamente de los beneficios del desarrollo económico y social.

And more at http://www.conapo.gob.mx/index.php?o...d=1&Itemid=217
As I read it, CONAPO has a mission by law to compare social phenomena which affects the whole population (of Mexico), the structure and dynamics of the population and population distribution within Mexico, with the goal of everyone equally enjoying the benefits of economic and social advancement.

I found the CONAPO Adobe document concerning Mexican national statisics and Governmental goals for the period of 2008 - 2012. PROGRAMA NACIONAL DE POBLACION at http://www.conapo.gob.mx/pnp/PNP_2008_2012.pdf

It's about 100 pages, extremely wordy and repetitive, and to completely comprehend it I would have to print it out and study it. However, skimming through it, it seems concerned with about every aspect of Mexican society: population; education; public health; women's rights; reproductive rights; sexually transmitted diseases; employee rights; lots of commentary and opinion concerning migration within, from, to, and through Mexico with all sorts of charts and maps of Mexico and America; Civic participation; the usual harangue concerning "human rights" and allegations of mistreatment of Mexican citizens in America; the social benefits and social costs of immigration to America, including family disruption and loss of domestic labor; and a goal of legalizing the flow of Mexicans into America.

It could be a Spanish language Boxer / Feinstein / Reid / Baca committee document or United Nations report from what superficial reading I gave it.

I didn't readily see an overt plan described to "inject" tens of millions of Mexicans into America, although it may be an unspoken, presumptuous forgone conclusion. The Mexican government has approved and abetted mass exodus for years as a social pressure release valve and defacto national welfare program, and some in their government see it as a method of territorial expansion by population transfer.

However, none of this is breaking news.
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Old journeyman commenting on young apprentices - "Think about it, these are their old days"

SOMETIMES IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.

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Last edited by ilbegone; 09-09-2010 at 11:14 AM.
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  #19  
Old 09-09-2010, 10:42 AM
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No, that's ridiculous. In Zimbabwe and South Africa and the rest of Africa too, even the Muslim colonized territories, Africans are the natives and have always outnumbered the colonists. Always. The historic, cultural, economic and political momentum has always been and will forever be in their hands. Their relatively recent struggles with colonizers and their real imperialist sponsors (with the exception of the Dutch South Africans) are of no long term consequence, but only if they can seize the initiative outside of colonial influence.
As I understand it, the white owned farms in Zimbabwe and other African countries were broken up and given to people who had no idea how to manage them, thus constituting a great leap backwards in respect to national nutrition.

Same thing happened in Mexico after the revolution. Many of the haciendas exchanged hands from criollo landowners to mestizo generals and the disaster was furthered along by politically popular "land redistribution" in favor of relatively unproductive subsistence hand farming.

Quote:
Illegal immigrants, no matter how they dominate demographically in the United States will ever have any kind of real meaning here, except as they are licensed to have by power holders.
I believe you may be underestimating what has already occurred.
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"A nickel will get you on the subway, but garlic will get you a seat." - Old New York Yiddish Saying

"You can observe a lot just by watching." Yogi Berra

Old journeyman commenting on young apprentices - "Think about it, these are their old days"

SOMETIMES IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.

Never, ever, wear a bright colored shirt to a stand up comedy show.

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  #20  
Old 09-10-2010, 05:01 AM
wetibbe wetibbe is offline
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Default CONAPO plan

The CONAPO plan that I read did specifically refer to the continuing migration of millions over 30 years.

Here is one report from CIS:

http://www.cis.org/MexicanGovernment...assImmigration

Last edited by wetibbe; 09-10-2010 at 05:07 AM.
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