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#1
12-05-2009, 02:20 PM
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I'm sorry, but no matter how useless a people are to themselves or anyone else, being subject to an empire has never been a solution. If you can't understand that part of the promise of our United States as a beacon of hope to anyone, even ourselves, is as a confrontation against empires, then you are unfit to be United States citizen.
Any time our government becomes the open and willing executor of an empire, then that government is capable of treating us, US citizens, as the subjects of an empire. What kind of fool would turn over their system of government to an empire. What happens to our borders when the US becomes an empire? Look at Great Britain and the commonwealth. It's immigration problems are the consequence of the collapse of Imperial England. That collapse saw its first tremors in our own American Revolution that saw the birth of our own country. Look at India. It has been the unwilling subject of an Islamic empire and an English empire. Under Ghandi and others, they finally took back most of their own country. They are still coping with the refuse that these empires left behind, although England left the most gracefully. Look at what Vietnam had to go through. Both the French and Catholics in the US said that Vietnam was incapable of governing itself. If they had been left to govern themselves, Vietnam would never have gone communist. But to the Vietnamese, communism was perferable to imperialism. They were right. Even communism is better than imperialism, especially the filthy and degenerate hand of imperialism that touched Vietnam. 
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#2
12-05-2009, 05:45 PM
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I can't believe this. For the first time ever I actually agree with Twoller!
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OPEN BORDERS AND MASS AMNESTY Ich Bin Ein Arizonan! "I entirely reject the concept, however, of "anchor babies." If parents are found to be here illegally, then the whole family, children as well, should be sent back to the parents' country of origin."
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#3
12-05-2009, 07:52 PM
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Well, I'm afraid you're going to have to revoke my citizenship b/c my position remains unchanged. Most of your observations are simply at odds with reality. Firstly, the answer to your initial question in the third paragraph is that when the United States extends into what is now Mexico, the desire or need to cross what was the border by hordes of uneducated laborers largely disappears b/c some manner of opportunity exists in their place of birth. Secondly, insofar as turning over my form of government to an empire, I have no intention of doing so. It is my position that we impose our leadership and control on them ... or perhaps you're under the impression that we'll see an end to Palestinian school children being indoctrinated into suicide terrorist attacks, or witness the enormous growth of a Mexican middle class, sometime during our lives if we don't? Standing around waiting for others to comport themselves to what we consider minimal standards of Western decency? How's it working out for you so far? Thirdly, you're right. I invite you to look at India and Vietnam. Visit those locations and then come back and tell me with a straight face their populations are better off in the absence of the British and the French. You can add a good chunk of Africa to that list, too. Earlier you mentioned something about Puerto Rico. Is that intended seriously? Remove the United States from that territory's equation and it is essentially the equivalent of the Dominican Republic or Haiti. America is good for people everywhere it touches down. Iraq, Japan, Guam, etc., and the idea that large populations in impoverished or corrupt countries are not better off with American values and leadership is tomfoolery. Last edited by DerailAmnesty.com; 12-05-2009 at 07:56 PM.
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#4
12-05-2009, 08:29 PM
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The United States is good for the United States and everything that the United States does should be only in the interests of the citizens of the United States. If Puerto Rico is Haiti outside of being a "territory" of the United States, then that's really tough for Puerto Rico, but of no concern to the United States. And its really tough to Haiti and the Dominacan Republic that they will never become "territories" of the United States.
You know, if you want to be serious about the US become a real empire, you ought to think a little straighter than that. A real empire doesn't give a crap about the peoples of their empirial conquests. It goes in, takes what it wants, enslaves the native peoples and if the native's lot accidentally improves, then take credit. The problem with Puerto Rico being the target of imperial ambitiions is that it hasn't got anything worth conquering over and the Puerto Ricans can't do anything that we need doing.
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#5
12-06-2009, 08:06 AM
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DA, I'm rather surprised that you would take this position. It's almost like advocating that America be the policeman of the world, only in this case it's not the policeman but the caretaker. I think Twoller's right, this only leads to trouble and resentment in the long run and has done so in many cases. Look at Vietnam, Iran, China, and Mexico, going back to the last century. We meddled in all those countries either militarily or otherwise and in every case there were some rather bad consequences.
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OPEN BORDERS AND MASS AMNESTY Ich Bin Ein Arizonan! "I entirely reject the concept, however, of "anchor babies." If parents are found to be here illegally, then the whole family, children as well, should be sent back to the parents' country of origin."
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#6
12-06-2009, 04:03 PM
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Seizing control of Mexico, Iraq and the Gaza Strip is absolutely in the interests of the citizens of the United States. How much money and military power have we burnt through taking constant remedial measures cleaning up the failings of those locations over the past decades? I don't want to make Mexico part of the U.S. b/c I think it has cool beaches, flashing eyed senoritas with curvy figures and natural resources. Nor is it particularly important to me that we provide better lives for our poor southern neighbors (that's just an extra benefit). I want to assert control over Mexico b/c the manner in which that nation conducts itself is killing tens of thousands of Americans, flooding our nation with their uneducated welfare cases and threatening our way of life. Twoller, are you expecting the authorities that be in Mexico City to get serious about stopping the flood of their poor and desperate into Texas, Arizona and California anytime soon? When do you believe the elite in that country will start to feel pangs of guilt and begin to reorganize the economic structure of Mexico so that there is a larger middle class that present less of a burden upon its immediate neighbor to the north? You're not dealing in reality, and our inaction results in loss of American lives, degradation of our cities, the disintegration of our public schools and citizen taxpayer exploitation out the wazoo. And Phil, everybody resents #1. Playing nice or trying to appease folks by showing how swell we are will change none of that. Last edited by DerailAmnesty.com; 12-06-2009 at 04:19 PM.
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#7
12-06-2009, 07:22 PM
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How can the US become an empire if we can't even expect our own authorities to take our borders seriously? What a joke! Power for the USA to become an empire, even if we had some political infection that was serious about it, would have to start with the proven ability to halt the flow of illegals across our border and additionally, a dramatic reduction in the flow of legals as well. It would have to start with the absolute and unilateral ability to close off our borders. We need that, but we already have a political infection that wants to reduce the US to a welfare state for Mexico and the rest of the planet with open borders. And now we got somebody trying to confuse this with imperialism. I don't believe you are honestly representing yourself. I don't think you are really thinking about an empire at all. Save your arguments. As far as I am concern, you are not to be trusted.
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#8
12-07-2009, 06:51 AM
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DA, are you putting us on? I'm not sure, but I think I can see your tongue slightly in your cheek.
__________________
OPEN BORDERS AND MASS AMNESTY Ich Bin Ein Arizonan! "I entirely reject the concept, however, of "anchor babies." If parents are found to be here illegally, then the whole family, children as well, should be sent back to the parents' country of origin."
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#9
12-07-2009, 07:33 PM
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As to your last two sentences, please spare me. Those are pretty much words commonly voiced by message board drama queens who take all disagreement as a manner of personal attack, and more importantly, are characterized by their conspicuous absences when we rally, hold a demonstration or do something that involves attendance. I tell you what. Show up in Santa Clarita next month and you have carte blanche to curse me out for the substance of my position and attempt to revoke my citizenship. --------------- No Phil, I'm not. I'm 46 years old and getting tired of the world not being the way I want it. I don't think there's anything wrong with a little red, white and blue pro-activeness when confronted by nations and clans that are career f ups. Last edited by DerailAmnesty.com; 12-07-2009 at 07:36 PM.
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#10
12-08-2009, 07:55 AM
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