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  #11  
Old 04-14-2010, 07:57 AM
Twoller Twoller is offline
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Originally Posted by Jeanfromfillmore View Post
Arizona passes strict illegal immigration act
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The bill, known as SB 1070, makes it a misdemeanor to lack proper immigration paperwork in Arizona. It also requires police officers, if they form a "reasonable suspicion" that someone is an illegal immigrant, to determine the person's immigration status.

Currently, officers can inquire about someone's immigration status only if the person is a suspect in another crime. The bill allows officers to avoid the immigration issue if it would be impractical or hinder another investigation.

Citizens can sue to compel police agencies to comply with the law, and no city or agency can formulate a policy directing its workers to ignore the law -- a provision that advocates say prevents so-called "sanctuary" orders that police not inquire about people's immigration status.

The bill cements the position of Arizona, whose border with Mexico is the most popular point of entry for illegal immigrants into this country, as the state most aggressively using its own laws to fight illegal immigration. In 2006 the state passed a law that would dissolve companies with a pattern of hiring illegal immigrants. Last year it made it a crime for a government worker to give improper benefits to an illegal immigrant.

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This is truly it. It's amazing that it takes a bill to do it. No legislation should be necessary, really.

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Originally Posted by Jeanfromfillmore View Post
Brewer, a Republican, has not taken a public stance on the bill. She replaced Janet Napolitano, a Democrat who became President Obama's Homeland Security chief last year. Napolitano had vetoed similar bills in the past. Brewer faces a primary challenge next month; most observers expect her to sign the measure.

Some Republicans have privately complained about the bill, which Pearce has been pushing for several years, but were loath to vote against in an election year. The House was scheduled to approve it last week but the vote was delayed until Tuesday to give sponsors a chance to round up enough votes. It picked up steam after the killing late last month of a rancher on the Arizona side of the Mexican border. Footprints from the crime scene led back to Mexico.

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Originally Posted by Jeanfromfillmore View Post
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...,4677282.story

Arizona House passes immigration bill

The Arizona House of Representatives passed a sweeping immigration bill Tuesday that would give police broad powers to arrest illegal immigrants, require immigrants to carry valid papers, and make it a misdemeanor to pick up and transport undocumented day laborers and migrants.

Senate Bill 1070 now goes back the Arizona Senate, which previously passed the measure and now must approve the House changes. The House version includes language exempting people who drive migrants to church or provide emergency services from being prosecuted.
Republicans supporting the bill say it would help combat illegal immigration and Mexican drug cartels in the state. The bill also would require police to enforce immigration laws.

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How can they get away with a passage exempting people who are driving some cockroach to church? Next you'll see that everybody hauling illegals will just say they were driving them to church. And meanwhile the rotten churches will be housing the same scum. Isn't this a violation of the seperation of church and state?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeanfromfillmore View Post
At a morning news conference, a group representing clergy and business denounced Senate Bill 1070, Sen. Russell Pearce's wide-ranging illegal immigration bill and tiptoed up to the edge of calling the Mesa senator a modern-day Hitler.

Among other things, the bill would require local law enforcement to determine a person's immigration status if the officer has "reasonable suspicion" to think the individual is in the country illegally.

It also attempts to prevent day laborers, by making it a misdemeanor both to solicit work from a roadway and to hire someone who is doing so and creates a misdemeanor offense if someone transports, or attempts to transport, an illegal immigrant when the driver knows the individual is in the country illegally.

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They say the bill's provision would harm the state's economy by forcing households with even one person here illegally to leave, would clog the courts with numerous lawsuits and put police in a no-win position of having to choose between ignoring a law that requires them to check the immigration status of almost anyone they stop or risking charges of racial profiling.

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Asked who he was referring to, Bailey declined to name names. Instead, he read a psychological profile of Adolph Hitler and told those gathered at a news conference "I allow you to draw your own conclusion."

Pearce rejected such comments as "name calling" and predicted his bill will pass.

"We're prepared, and we'll prevail," he said.

The House is scheduled to begin debate on the matter at 1:30 p.m.; a formal vote is expected later this afternoon. If it passes, it will go to Gov. Jan Brewer for her consideration.

Tuesday, April 13, 2010 at 12:32 PM
Always remember when people make the Adolph Hitler allusions, that Adolph Hitler was an illegal immigrant in Germany from Austria who gained entry to Germany by being a veteran of WWI, a war that Germany did not start, but was started by Austria.
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  #12  
Old 04-14-2010, 09:45 AM
PochoPatriot PochoPatriot is offline
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I believe that this bill is bad law, and I hope that it gets overturned, because "reasonable suspicion" is too low a threshold for LE, and will lead to American citizens being harassed by LEO.

My biggest question as an American citizen of Latino heritage is, "What is meant by the term 'reasonable suspicion'"? Is it any brown person? Is it any brown person with a large family? Is it any brown person driving an older model car? Does this mean that I have to be concerned about getting pulled over for DWB (driving while brown) when I visit my family in Arizona or when I am traveling through Arizona to visit my dad in New Mexico? Perhaps I should just bypass Arizona altogether and spend my money in Nevada, Utah and Colorado. Does this mean that I have to "prove" my citizenship to any Arizona LEO just because he has "reasonable suspicion" that I am illegal? Since when do I have to prove anything to any LEO? What happened to innocent until proven guilty?

This bill is full of too many holes. It is a knee jerk reaction that is going to cause more problems than it will solve, and it should be overturned.
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  #13  
Old 04-14-2010, 10:03 AM
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Ayatollahgondola Ayatollahgondola is offline
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Originally Posted by PochoPatriot View Post
I believe that this bill is bad law, and I hope that it gets overturned, because "reasonable suspicion" is too low a threshold for LE, and will lead to American citizens being harassed by LEO.

My biggest question as an American citizen of Latino heritage is, "What is meant by the term 'reasonable suspicion'"? Is it any brown person? Is it any brown person with a large family? Is it any brown person driving an older model car? Does this mean that I have to be concerned about getting pulled over for DWB (driving while brown) when I visit my family in Arizona or when I am traveling through Arizona to visit my dad in New Mexico? Perhaps I should just bypass Arizona altogether and spend my money in Nevada, Utah and Colorado. Does this mean that I have to "prove" my citizenship to any Arizona LEO just because he has "reasonable suspicion" that I am illegal? Since when do I have to prove anything to any LEO? What happened to innocent until proven guilty?

This bill is full of too many holes. It is a knee jerk reaction that is going to cause more problems than it will solve, and it should be overturned.
Why would this law automatically revolve around one race? or any specific race?
If you take a look at my thread about illegal alien tracker in Sac, there are many different races being checked for immigration status. The cause usually revolves around specific ID issues, not race. Either they present false ID, no ID and give false information. or have some evidence on them that may implicate them in an illegal presence crime.
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  #14  
Old 04-14-2010, 10:11 AM
PochoPatriot PochoPatriot is offline
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Originally Posted by Ayatollahgondola View Post
Why would this law automatically revolve around one race? or any specific race?
So you really think that LE will pull over white Caucasians and ask them to prove their immigration/citizenship status based on "reasonable suspicion"?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayatollahgondola View Post
If you take a look at my thread about illegal alien tracker in Sac, there are many different races being checked for immigration status. The cause usually revolves around specific ID issues, not race. Either they present false ID, no ID and give false information. or have some evidence on them that may implicate them in an illegal presence crime.
The issue is that LE had "reasonable suspicion" that some other crime was being committed. The problem with SB1070 is that this bill bases "reasonable suspicion" on immigration status. I have no issue with a person having their immigration status checked because they are suspected of another crime, but to make "reasonable suspicion" of immigration status the sole basis for stopping a person just smacks of a totalitarian state (insert German accent), "I want to see your papers!"

Edited to add: I think that the intention of this bill is admirable. However the wording of this bill is abominable.
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Last edited by PochoPatriot; 04-14-2010 at 12:05 PM. Reason: Clarification
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  #15  
Old 04-14-2010, 12:52 PM
Twoller Twoller is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayatollahgondola View Post
Why would this law automatically revolve around one race? or any specific race?
If you take a look at my thread about illegal alien tracker in Sac, there are many different races being checked for immigration status. The cause usually revolves around specific ID issues, not race. Either they present false ID, no ID and give false information. or have some evidence on them that may implicate them in an illegal presence crime.
The only possible reason that anyone could criticize this bill is if they didn't want illegal immigrants under the eye of law enforcement for the simple and sole reason of being in the country illegally.

Yes, if you speak with an accent, you might be an illegal immigrant. If you don't speak English at all, you cannot be a US citizen and so should be able to answer to law enforcement about the legality of your presence in the US. At any time, all the time, any time a law enforcement officer decides they want to pursue the issue. That's it. But that's the easy part, for people whose country of origin in a non-English speaking country.

As long as law enforcement does not exclude fluent English speakers from investigating whether the person is illegal or not, why should anyone complain? There are other clues that law enforcement can go by in pursuing illegal immigrants and other things to observe to excite the attention of law enforcement besides ethnic origin or native language.

This law is important precisely because it does not orient itself around country of origin and it well might without appearing racist. It might address the Mexican government and the activity of Mexican organized crime specifically, but it didn't. It is a bill that might easily work in California with little alteration.
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  #16  
Old 04-14-2010, 01:02 PM
PochoPatriot PochoPatriot is offline
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Originally Posted by Twoller View Post
The only possible reason that anyone could criticize this bill is if they didn't want illegal immigrants under the eye of law enforcement for the simple and sole reason of being in the country illegally.
BULLSHIT!

The rest of this post is unworthy of any discussion.
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  #17  
Old 04-14-2010, 04:07 PM
Patriotic Army Mom Patriotic Army Mom is offline
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MY brown children wouldn't mind it as they know that terrorists and illegals come in all colors.
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  #18  
Old 04-14-2010, 04:50 PM
MowMyOwn MowMyOwn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PochoPatriot View Post
I believe that this bill is bad law, and I hope that it gets overturned, because "reasonable suspicion" is too low a threshold for LE, and will lead to American citizens being harassed by LEO.

My biggest question as an American citizen of Latino heritage is, "What is meant by the term 'reasonable suspicion'"? Is it any brown person? Is it any brown person with a large family? Is it any brown person driving an older model car? Does this mean that I have to be concerned about getting pulled over for DWB (driving while brown) when I visit my family in Arizona or when I am traveling through Arizona to visit my dad in New Mexico? Perhaps I should just bypass Arizona altogether and spend my money in Nevada, Utah and Colorado. Does this mean that I have to "prove" my citizenship to any Arizona LEO just because he has "reasonable suspicion" that I am illegal? Since when do I have to prove anything to any LEO? What happened to innocent until proven guilty?

This bill is full of too many holes. It is a knee jerk reaction that is going to cause more problems than it will solve, and it should be overturned.
I think "reasonable suspicion" would be defined in the fine print of the bill, otherwise, I see this as a can of worms for lawsuits against the cops.
I see this as being more fluff than fire actually. . . but my first thought was.. oh great, now they'll be moving to Ca.
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  #19  
Old 04-14-2010, 05:08 PM
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Personally I feel this "profiling" Bs is way out of control

Since most illegal in Az and indeed in the US are hispanic , they should "reasonably" all be suspect

Besides , If I get pulled over I have to produce ID

And before anyone spouts off , I was "profiled" as looking like someone robbing 7-11s , I just produced my Id , explained where I was and where I was going and I was on my way.

If you want to put the heat on illegals , or the greatest amount of them , yes , you start profiling and you don't stop.
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  #20  
Old 04-14-2010, 06:13 PM
PochoPatriot PochoPatriot is offline
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One of the reasons that this bill is so appalling to me is that it trades innocent until proven guilty for a temporary respite from the illegal invasion. Benjamin Franklin once said, "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

As I said earlier, this bill's intentions are admirable, but the language is abominable.
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