That was then, this is now

[ilbegone]

This is the conflict of "that was then, this is now", a very important distinction between race and nationality, and the collusion those on both sides of the immigration debate who would blur the distinction:

NM governor says grandparents came to US illegally


September 8, 2011

ALBUQUERQUE, N.M. (AP) - New Mexico Gov. Susana Martinez has acknowledged her paternal grandparents came to the U.S. illegally, amid national attention and protests over her ongoing efforts to bar illegal immigrants from getting driver's licenses.

"I know they arrived without documents, especially my father's father," the Republican said Wednesday in an interview in Spanish with KLUZ-TV, the Albuquerque Univision affiliate.

Martinez has long acknowledged her Mexican heritage. But when asked previously about reports that her grandfather was an illegal immigrant, her office has said Martinez was unsure of his status since he abandoned the family when her father was young.

Her comments Wednesday appeared to be the first time she has answered the question definitively. The Santa Fe New Mexican reported in July that the 1930 U.S. Census Bureau record lists Martinez's paternal grandparents' citizenship status as "AL" for "alien," a status that refers to "all foreign-born persons neither naturalized nor having first papers." However, Martinez was not directly quoted in the story addressing her grandparents' immigration status.

Martinez spokesman Scott Darnell said Thursday the governor had just recently learned of her grandparents' immigration status through media reports that cited census records showing her grandfather entered the country illegally.

"The governor has no reason to question that 1930 Census record about her grandfather and has always known, and publicly spoken of the fact for years, that her family roots trace back to Mexico," Darnell said.

"It's unfortunate that some are choosing to personally attack the governor, but these tactics prove that supporters of giving driver's licenses to illegal immigrants have run out of legitimate defenses for a bad policy."

Martinez has made headlines recently for her push to repeal a state law that lets illegal immigrants get a New Mexico driver's license. She has added the issue to the agenda for a special session on redistricting that opened Tuesday.

New Mexico is one of only three states - the others are Washington and Utah - where an illegal immigrant can get a driver's license because no proof of citizenship is required.

Martinez argues New Mexico's law jeopardizes public safety and attracts illegal immigrants who fraudulently claim to live in the state only to get ID cards that make it easier to stay in the country. Immigrant advocates, however, say the law allows more drivers to be insured in the state and helps law enforcement obtain needed safety data. They say the fraud cases Martinez often cites for reasons to change the law are isolated.

A similar repeal effort by Martinez failed in the state Senate during the regular session earlier this year. Martinez said she wanted legislators to take up the repeal again, despite some lawmakers' complaints that they should focus largely on redistricting.

It's unclear if lawmakers will have time to reconsider the repeal during the 30-day special session. But that hasn't stopped immigrant advocates from coming to Santa Fe to rally against the possible repeal.

In protests this week in Santa Fe, advocates and some religious leaders cited Martinez's family history as a reason the governor should drop her effort to repeal the driver's license law.

At a rally Thursday, protesters held posters bearing a likeness of a driver's license with a photograph of Martinez. A placard read: "Dear Susana. Do you know your history? Did you forget your roots?"

Martinez grew up in El Paso and is the nation's first elected Latina governor. She has called the issue of her family's immigrant past irrelevant, arguing immigration laws were different when her grandfather came from Mexico in the 1920s.

But Guadalupe San Miguel Jr., an author and University of Houston history professor, said immigration laws during the time Martinez says her grandparents came to the United States weren't much different than they are now. Those coming to the U.S. were subjected to a number of requirements if they wanted to stay legally, he said.

"What was different then was the lack of enforcement," San Miguel said. "The border patrol was created in 1917, and there were just a handful of border patrol agents. There was no way they could enforce the law."

San Miguel said because of the lack of enforcement Mexican immigrants and Mexican Americans went back of forth between Mexico and the United States with little problems.

Lisa Y. Ramos, a Texas A&M University history professor, said most multigenerational Mexican Americans like Martinez have "at least one family member with an undocumented past" due to that free range of movement along the border in early part of the 20th century.

"But Mexican Americans weren't the only ones who have this undocumented past," said Ramos, who is writing a book on the Mexican-American civil rights movement. "A lot of other multigenerational Americans do, too, like Italian Americans."

In fact, then-Sen. Pete Domenici, R-N.M., acknowledged in 2007 during a debate over a failed immigration bill that his mother was an illegal immigrant from Italy and was briefly detained by federal agents during World War II when he was a child. She eventually became a U.S. citizen.

But Ramos said the irony about Martinez's past is that she might not be governor of New Mexico today if her grandparents hadn't made the decision to enter the U.S. the way they did, when they did.

"She wouldn't be there if her grandfather, who was undocumented, hadn't come," Ramos said.

The bold print at the top and bottom speaks volumes when put together.

[Kathy63]

If Uncle Obama and Aunt Obama hadn't had a nephew in the white house they would have been deported already.

[ilbegone]

Originally Posted by Kathy63

If Uncle Obama and Aunt Obama hadn't had a nephew in the white house they would have been deported already.

Perhaps so.

However, the fact that New Mexico Governor Susana Martinez' grandfather was, according to the standards of his time, an illegal alien has as much to do with her as slavery in the United States 150 years ago has to do with you.

Are you responsible for or somehow condone the enslavement of black people? Of course not.

Is governor Martinez responsible for the fact that a grandfather - particularly someone who abandoned his wife and children - was illegally present in the United States?

While in the name of public safety and security she seeks to deny driver's licenses to illegal aliens, Some will consider her to be of the status as her derilict grandfather, and others will decry her for "forgetting her heritage" - beaten from both sides.

The truth is that she is who she is, not her past grandfather, not a present traitor, not what anyone else would push her into being.

She has Mexican ancestors, but she is not Mexican. She may be brown, but she is an American. It's time to get past the notion that ancestry equals nationality, political belief, and sympathy to specific agendas. People shouldn't be punished for the sins of their ancestors nor for the sins of people who may physically resemble them

[wetibbe]

Susan Martinez is probably Governor because she has Mexican ancestry. Bill Richardson, her predecessor, was also "Mexican". BUT - she is a Republican and he is a Democrat !!!!!!!

They get elected because the population of Latinos/Hispanics is increasing. And because the illegals vote also. New Mexico is presently investigating 40,000 cases of voter fraud.

Lupe Moreno's father was a Mexican human trafficker. As a young teen ager she was involved up to her eyebrows. And now she is a vociferous activist dead set against illegal immigration.

So it all depends. Man *( and woman ) is a product of heredity and environment. There are lots of Latino/Hispanic Republicans. Marco Rubio is a good example. As is the group " You Don't Speak For Me".

When the bad Latinos out number the good Latinos you get Antonio Villaraigosa.

The predictions are that in the next 4 - 5 decade the minorities will become the majorities ! All the more reason to control immigration.

Here's a question for you. Why has there never been a Native American President or Governor? After all they were the FIRST Americans and Mexicans are intruder foreigners ? The Liberals make a big hullabaloo about the first black President but blacks came AFTER Native Americans.

[ilbegone]

Originally Posted by wetibbe

Susan Martinez is probably Governor because she has Mexican ancestry. Bill Richardson, her predecessor, was also "Mexican". BUT - she is a Republican and he is a Democrat !!!!!!!

They get elected because the population of Latinos/Hispanics is increasing. And because the illegals vote also. New Mexico is presently investigating 40,000 cases of voter fraud.

Lupe Moreno's father was a Mexican human trafficker. As a young teen ager she was involved up to her eyebrows. And now she is a vociferous activist dead set against illegal immigration.

So it all depends. Man *( and woman ) is a product of heredity and environment. There are lots of Latino/Hispanic Republicans. Marco Rubio is a good example. As is the group " You Don't Speak For Me".

When the bad Latinos out number the good Latinos you get Antonio Villaraigosa.

The predictions are that in the next 4 - 5 decade the minorities will become the majorities ! All the more reason to control immigration.

Here's a question for you. Why has there never been a Native American President or Governor? After all they were the FIRST Americans and Mexicans are intruder foreigners ? The Liberals make a big hullabaloo about the first black President but blacks came AFTER Native Americans.

There are probably hundreds of pages of commentary on this post - your post is thoughtful and thank you. However, to more than briefly comment on it would be getting into quite a bit of history, and I'm tired plus I have "dipped into the medicine".

I don't know why Martinez became governor of Mexico, but attempting to deny driver's licenses to illegals suggests that it is not by sucking up to the pro illegal crowd. On the other hand, there are people who are descended from the Spaniards whose families have been in the Rio Grande Valley vicinity since the 1600's, and they aren't "Mexican" - some speak a Spanish dialect which far predates Mexican incursion. Lots of Indians and people with Northern European ancestry as well.

Bill Richardson is the son of a white American diplomat and a Mexican mother, I don't know her race, but Bill's features suggests brown. I speculate that she was from a monied, influential family. If I recall right, Bill spent some of his youth in Mexico City, and his time of coming of age was in the 1950's - the same as the old school Chicanos. I know people who went through that time of living on the other side of the tracks, one who lives in my house as well, it wasn't the same as now. Martinez' experience is a generation more recent, I believe her not to have the same experiences either socially or politically as Richardson.

Marco Rubio has Cuban Ancestry, he doesn't have a lot in common with Mexicans or American brown pride activists.

"Good Latino", "Bad Latino", just what the hell is a "Latino"? The word is so broad as to be meaningless. I will grant you there are racists and people who aren't so prejudiced in all races and in all nationalities. Villaraigosa is a racist as is Tom Metzger, and both get their following by exploiting ignorance.

I believe who cares who is a minority or not, we need to become "us".

Why hasn't an Indian become governor or the President?

Prior to 1965, the answer is very clear and needs no words in my mind.

Subsequently, Casino reservation Indians are too busy pretending to be sovereign while buying off white politicians at the capitol as well as "preserving a culture" that is long gone and most haven't experienced. The poor reservation Indians are too busy drinking themselves to death while generally refusing to join the modern world - and the majority of the old culture is gone for them as well.

An example from Mexico:

Mexican President - Hero Benito Juarez was born a Zapotec Indian shepherd who didn't speak Spanish in his youth. He was educated by the grace of a priest, and became an iron Mexican politician precisely because he ceased being Indian.

Obama is mixed race, and due to his life experiences I don't believe he is in a position to relate with most blacks in America. The left can make a big deal all they want, but the real question is, can he do his job in a competent manner which benefits all citizens of the United States? That is the qualifying matter in my mind.

On the other hand, a saggin', dreadlocked black man who speaks in ebonics and has a chip on his shoulder isn't going to become President. Does this have to do with not "giving up one's blackness", whatever that is?

If you want to know about brown racist incursion into politics, study the long defunct Texas political party La Raza Unida and founder Jose Angel Gutierrez. It's the same formula then as now concerning brown racist takeover of government, public services and education. Those people may have had Mexican parents or Mexican ancestors, but they were Americans doing political (and otherwise) things Mexicans would never have dreamed of doing. REAL Mexicans tend not to go along with "Chicano" bullshit, simply because most reject the Americanism of those pushing it - "Aztlan" has to be repackaged for Mexicans for they are a different audience than their Americanized children. Sucking up freebies is another matter - Mexicans tend to be "equal opportunity" in that matter.

[Jeanfromfillmore]

Originally Posted by ilbegone

There are probably hundreds of pages of commentary on this post - your post is thoughtful and thank you. However, to more than briefly comment on it would be getting into quite a bit of history, and I'm tired plus I have "dipped into the medicine".

I don't know why Martinez became governor of Mexico, but attempting to deny driver's licenses to illegals suggests that it is not by sucking up to the pro illegal crowd. On the other hand, there are people who are descended from the Spaniards whose families have been in the Rio Grande Valley vicinity since the 1600's, and they aren't "Mexican" - some speak a Spanish dialect which far predates Mexican incursion. Lots of Indians and people with Northern European ancestry as well.

Bill Richardson is the son of a white American diplomat and a Mexican mother, I don't know her race, but Bill's features suggests brown. I speculate that she was from a monied, influential family. If I recall right, Bill spent some of his youth in Mexico City, and his time of coming of age was in the 1950's - the same as the old school Chicanos. I know people who went through that time of living on the other side of the tracks, one who lives in my house as well, it wasn't the same as now. Martinez' experience is a generation more recent, I believe her not to have the same experiences either socially or politically as Richardson.

Marco Rubio has Cuban Ancestry, he doesn't have a lot in common with Mexicans or American brown pride activists.

"Good Latino", "Bad Latino", just what the hell is a "Latino"? The word is so broad as to be meaningless. I will grant you there are racists and people who aren't so prejudiced in all races and in all nationalities. Villaraigosa is a racist as is Tom Metzger, and both get their following by exploiting ignorance.

I believe who cares who is a minority or not, we need to become "us".

Why hasn't an Indian become governor or the President?

Prior to 1965, the answer is very clear and needs no words in my mind.

Subsequently, Casino reservation Indians are too busy pretending to be sovereign while buying off white politicians at the capitol as well as "preserving a culture" that is long gone and most haven't experienced. The poor reservation Indians are too busy drinking themselves to death while generally refusing to join the modern world - and the majority of the old culture is gone for them as well.

An example from Mexico:

Mexican President - Hero Benito Juarez was born a Zapotec Indian shepherd who didn't speak Spanish in his youth. He was educated by the grace of a priest, and became an iron Mexican politician precisely because he ceased being Indian.

Obama is mixed race, and due to his life experiences I don't believe he is in a position to relate with most blacks in America. The left can make a big deal all they want, but the real question is, can he do his job in a competent manner which benefits all citizens of the United States? That is the qualifying matter in my mind.

On the other hand, a saggin', dreadlocked black man who speaks in ebonics and has a chip on his shoulder isn't going to become President. Does this have to do with not "giving up one's blackness", whatever that is?

If you want to know about brown racist incursion into politics, study the long defunct Texas political party La Raza Unida and founder Jose Angel Gutierrez. It's the same formula then as now concerning brown racist takeover of government, public services and education. Those people may have had Mexican parents or Mexican ancestors, but they were Americans doing political (and otherwise) things Mexicans would never have dreamed of doing. REAL Mexicans tend not to go along with "Chicano" bullshit, simply because most reject the Americanism of those pushing it - "Aztlan" has to be repackaged for Mexicans for they are a different audience than their Americanized children. Sucking up freebies is another matter - Mexicans tend to be "equal opportunity" in that matter.

Thank you for your comment. I was very well written.

[Beverly Caterers]

I actually thought Gov. Martinez was a Native American!
She totally behaves like a true American. What her grandparents say should not count
anyway. They should be glad they didn't stay in Mexico.