Save Our State  

Go Back   Save Our State > General Forum (non official Save Our State business) > Religion

Religion Topics and information of interest to SOS associates in regards to religion

Immigration Pushed To The Forefront Again.... Thanks! To Everyone Who Has Propelled This Issue To Its' Rightful Position. Years Of Hard Work Are Paying Off.....Keep Up The Good Work!......
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-08-2010, 09:13 PM
Don Don is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 649
Default Orthodox Jews Burn New Testaments in Israel

Holy Crap! Just when we have this big deal about a Christian burning a Koran, in Israel orthodox Jewish youths are burning New Testaments! Who ever would have thought that our only ally in the middle east would do something so hateful and despicable. What happened to "tolerance" and "diversity" and "sensitivity"? But....they're God's chosen people after all, and we're just dumb goyim. What do our feelings count for?



http://www.haaretz.com/news/orthodox...ehuda-1.246153
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-08-2010, 09:36 PM
Ayatollahgondola's Avatar
Ayatollahgondola Ayatollahgondola is offline
SOS Associate
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,046
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don View Post
Holy Crap! Just when we have this big deal about a Christian burning a Koran, in Israel orthodox Jewish youths are burning New Testaments! Who ever would have thought that our only ally in the middle east would do something so hateful and despicable. What happened to "tolerance" and "diversity" and "sensitivity"? But....they're God's chosen people after all, and we're just dumb goyim. What do our feelings count for?



http://www.haaretz.com/news/orthodox...ehuda-1.246153
Who is "our" when you say our feelings? I don't see this as you do. If a group of illegals passed out thousands of new constitutions in spanish in a largely patriot area of the US, and a bunch of them went up in a big bonfire, I'd feel just fine. Burning up flags, books, and other articles is traditionally acceptable demonstration. Interestingly, it's getting pretty illegal in the first amendment homeland because outdoor burning is outlawed. But anyway, it looks as though the hate is directed at fellow Israeli's, not the USA
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-08-2010, 10:05 PM
ilbegone's Avatar
ilbegone ilbegone is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,064
Default

Who exactly is "us" and who exactly are "they", and why such a broad brush?

The act of a few civilians within Israel somehow constitutes that nation's foreign policy towards the United States, or narrowly defines whatever good will there may between the citizens of those two nations?
__________________
Freibier gab's gestern

Hay burros en el maiz

RAP IS TO MUSIC WHAT ETCH-A-SKETCH IS TO ART

Don't drink and post.

"A nickel will get you on the subway, but garlic will get you a seat." - Old New York Yiddish Saying

"You can observe a lot just by watching." Yogi Berra

Old journeyman commenting on young apprentices - "Think about it, these are their old days"

SOMETIMES IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.

Never, ever, wear a bright colored shirt to a stand up comedy show.

Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-09-2010, 09:18 AM
Twoller Twoller is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,296
Default

Jews are justifiably infuriated by repeated attempts of Christian missionaries who keep trying to convert Jews to Christianity. "Jews for Jesus", for example. Part of the history of the unjust persecution of Jews in Europe is forced conversion. The Islamic persecution of Jews is less oriented around conversion. It may not be possible, since the hostility is scriptural, it's in the Koran.

Part of Christian subversion of Judaism in Israel is flooding communites with copies of the New Testament. If the Orthodox Jews are burning New Testament copies, it's probably because somebody has been dumping a ton of them on those communities. Just like they do in some neighborhoods here and on college campuses. Notice they are not buring Christian bibles.

Jews have never forced anyone to convert to Judaism or forced anyone else to submit to Judaic law. Never. Not anywhere in the history of Judaism.
__________________
The United States of America is for citizens only! Everyone else OUT.
Criminalize asking party affilation for voter registration! End the "two party system"!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-09-2010, 11:34 AM
Don Don is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 649
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Twoller View Post
Jews are justifiably infuriated by repeated attempts of Christian missionaries who keep trying to convert Jews to Christianity. "Jews for Jesus", for example. Part of the history of the unjust persecution of Jews in Europe is forced conversion. The Islamic persecution of Jews is less oriented around conversion. It may not be possible, since the hostility is scriptural, it's in the Koran.
.
"Justifiably infuriated"?

Maybe the American Christians, who are sheared like sheep every year at tax time to pay for subsidies of the "Jewish" state of Israel are a little infuriated too.

Dumb Christian goyim are good enough to pay taxes to support Jews, but their religion is not good enough to be proclaimed in "Israel", a purported democracy?

What a pathetic joke. If Iran wipes Israel off the face of the earth, it would go a long way toward liberating American goyim who are essentially live stock who are sheared every year as they are forced to subsidize a foreign country based on a religion they do not share.

How about this arrangement: Christians stop trying to convert Jews and Jews get their greasy hands out of Christian wallets?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-09-2010, 01:11 PM
DerailAmnesty.com DerailAmnesty.com is offline
"SZinWestLA"
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,003
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don View Post
"Justifiably infuriated"?

Maybe the American Christians, who are sheared like sheep every year at tax time to pay for subsidies of the "Jewish" state of Israel are a little infuriated too.

Dumb Christian goyim are good enough to pay taxes to support Jews, but their religion is not good enough to be proclaimed in "Israel", a purported democracy?

What a pathetic joke. If Iran wipes Israel off the face of the earth, it would go a long way toward liberating American goyim who are essentially live stock who are sheared every year as they are forced to subsidize a foreign country based on a religion they do not share.

How about this arrangement: Christians stop trying to convert Jews and Jews get their greasy hands out of Christian wallets?

Don, would you please stop posting in this thread so frequently. I'm afraid this conversation is distracting you from earning additional taxable income.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-10-2010, 08:35 AM
ilbegone's Avatar
ilbegone ilbegone is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,064
Default

Not sure why, just felt compelled to post this...

Quote:
Frum Satire

It aint always frum and it aint always satire



Non-generic Jewish sects

by Heshy Fried on January 30, 2010

Everyone knows the generic Jewish sects, modern orthodox, Chassidic, reform, conservative and so on. What many people don’t know are the different sub groups or ways to call those people that venture a little from the generic categories.

Flamers: Usually referring to Baal Teshuvas that have become quite militant in their practices. Examples may include the girls that burn all of their untznius clothing and the guys that throw away all of their secular music and stop flushing the toilet on shabbos.

Flipped Out: This term is used to the process in which kids that spend the year after high school in a yeshiva in Israel when they become more frum than their parents. Those who flip out tend to lose all of their gains within 3 weeks of coming home, at which point they realize that they don’t want to fully abstain until marriage.

OTD: Off the Derech (“OTD”) is the way to describe Jews that have left the fold; It is always used as a negative connotation, implying that there is a right derech.

Bent down: A term used by Chassidim to describe black hat wearing Jews who aren’t chassids by virtue of the fact that their hat brims bend down. Chassidic hats do not have bendable brims, aka “bent up hats”.

Yellow flaggers: Within Chabad, one of the ways to show you are a meshichist is to wave yellow flags with the word moshiach on them. These yellow flags are also worn as pins or purchased in banner or bumper sticker form.

Ben Niddah: I have heard the term used twice – it’s really sick – but some folks feel the need to call baalei teshuva’s the sons of women who didn’t go to the mikvah, and hence they were niddahs at the time of conception. Truly disgusting.

Hava Nagila Jews: A way to describe Jews whose only connection to Judaism is through the dance of hava nagila. These tend to be the types of Jews that feel the need to be drinking manishevetz wine in their you tube videos.

Whacky Zionists: Way to describe people who feel that wearing white knitted yarmulkes and speaking Hebrew in really thick American accents makes them Zionistic.

Frummies: Derogatory way to describe overzealous Orthodox Jews who feel the need to take on unnecessary stringencies.

Hockers: People who like to talk but never actually say anything. They are the types who always “know someone who can help you”, as long as you never actually take them up on that offer.

Tuna Beigels: Chassidim who are not chassids anymore (i.e. with the garb and/or practicing) but they still sound as though they are, to the extent that when they order a tuna bagel they say “beigel” in a thick Yiddish accent.

Heimishe: The all encompassing term used to describe black hat and Chassidic Jewish establishments and family types. Commonly used to describe something that is of lower quality and very religious. Examples include Hiemishe Steakhouses, heimishe dry cleaners and heimishe families.

Lubbies: Short for lubavitcher

Snags: The chabad slang for misnaged which literally means people opposed to Chassidim. I have only heard Snag used by chabadnicks or people close to chabad.

Hot Chanie: An Orthodox woman who only wears skirts, but insists on maintaining her sexiness through very short skirts, sexy wigs and tight shirts. The “hot” in the term is a misnomer; these women are not necessarily considered hot.

Sheitle Hookers: Women that wear sheitles, hooker boots and mini skirts.

Egal: Short and hip way to say egalitarian.

Flexidox: One day you’re orthodox and the next day you get a bacon cheeseburger after going to shul.

Orthoprax: People that are orthodox in practice but not in belief, I bet you there are a lot more of these people within the orthodox community, but it seems they are all in the closet.

http://www.frumsatire.net/2010/01/30...-jewish-sects/
__________________
Freibier gab's gestern

Hay burros en el maiz

RAP IS TO MUSIC WHAT ETCH-A-SKETCH IS TO ART

Don't drink and post.

"A nickel will get you on the subway, but garlic will get you a seat." - Old New York Yiddish Saying

"You can observe a lot just by watching." Yogi Berra

Old journeyman commenting on young apprentices - "Think about it, these are their old days"

SOMETIMES IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.

Never, ever, wear a bright colored shirt to a stand up comedy show.


Last edited by ilbegone; 09-10-2010 at 08:40 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-07-2010, 12:05 PM
ilbegone's Avatar
ilbegone ilbegone is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,064
Default

Don,

Here's another one for you. Some of the same things apply to to the differences between Americans with Mexican ancestry and Mexican nationals as well as differences between American and Israeli Jews - you can't "go home".

Quote:
Israeli Jews at odds with liberal Judaism in U.S.

10/31/2010


JERUSALEM (AP) — Many American Jews — whose faith is seen by the ultra-Orthodox as blurred by intermarriage and fading adherence to tradition — are feeling rejected and unwelcome in Israel.

When Hillary Rubin immigrated from the U.S. to Israel, the granddaughter of Holocaust survivors and descendant of a famed Zionist visionary felt that she had finally arrived in her true home.

But now that religious authorities are questioning the 29-year-old Michigan native's Jewish pedigree and refusing to recognize her marriage, she's having second thoughts.

Rubin is at the center of a deepening rift between the world's two biggest Jewish communities — the American and Israeli. Religious life in Israel is dominated by the strict ultra-Orthodox establishment, which has growing political power and has become increasingly resistant to any inroads by the more liberal movements that predominate among American Jews.

"I feel like I am caught in the middle of these two worlds," said Rubin, who was raised in a liberal Jewish home in a Detroit suburb. "On the one hand I'm far too traditional for American society. On the flip side, I am not religious enough for the rabbinate in Israel."

It's a far cry from the days when American Jews looked to Israel as a source of pride and inspiration and Israel could rely on America's Jews as a source of unconditional moral support and fundraising. With ultra-Orthodox Jews the fastest growing sector in Israel, often holding the balance of power in coalition governments, open strains between the communities are now far more common.

Over the summer, a proposed law that would have consecrated the Orthodox monopoly over conversion in Israel caused an uproar among Diaspora Jews. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was forced to shelve the bill in hopes of finding a compromise.

Last week, American and Israeli Jewish leaders held a conference in Jerusalem aiming at ironing out their differences. But the closed-door sessions were tense and all sides stuck to their positions, said one participant, American Rabbi Jerome Epstein, of the Conservative movement.

He warned that the conflict could "tear the people apart" if no compromise is found.

"There are a lot of Americans who normally would not get involved in Israeli politics but who are saying, 'What you are doing is delegitimizing me. It is not enough to want my support and want my money, you have to be willing to recognize me as a human being and as a Jew,' and they feel that is not happening," he said.

The two communities are at odds over everything from religious rituals to gender roles. But the issues of marriage and conversion most concretely raise concern among American Jews that they are judged as not Jewish enough for Israel.

The more liberal Reform and Conservative movements, which dominate American Jewish life, are more inclusive toward converts and inter-faith marriages. More than half of American Jews marry outside the faith.

Chelsea Clinton's marriage last summer to Marc Mezvinsky, who is Jewish, showed just how well assimilated U.S. Jews have become. Many American Jews were quietly proud of their homegrown son, who, in a skullcap and prayer shawl, wed the former First Daughter in a ceremony performed by a Reform Rabbi and a Protestant minister.

But to many in Israel, Mezvinsky seemed to break more than a glass at the wedding. The inter-faith ceremony — held on the Sabbath in violation of Jewish law, to boot — encapsulated fears that assimilation is emptying the religion of content and devastating its numbers.

In Israel, despite its secular majority, ultra-Orthodox rabbis strictly govern Jewish practices such as weddings, burials or conversions and only allow them for those who meet Orthodox definitions of a Jew. Israel grants citizenship to any Jew — Reform, Conservative or Orthodox — but once in Israel, many who consider themselves Jewish cannot get married or have a Jewish burial.

Rubin's story shows just how deep the gulf has become.

When she went to the Orthodox rabbinate to register for a marriage certificate, the authorities wouldn't accept the documents she produced or the assurances of her American rabbi that she was indeed Jewish, despite her famous lineage.

The government only recognizes Orthodox marriage and Israel has no civil marriage. So after holding an informal ceremony with a Conservative rabbi, Rubin and her fiance — who is also Jewish — were forced to officially tie the knot in nearby Cyprus to be recognized as married in Israel.

"It terrifies me that this is the direction we are going. This is not a democratic Jewish state. It is becoming a tyrannical Jewish state," said Rubin, whose great-uncle was Nahum Sokolow, one of the pioneers of early 20th century Zionism.

Seth Farber, an Orthodox rabbi and director of a group that helps Israelis navigate the rabbinical bureaucracy, said the threshold for proving one's Judaism has risen alongside the rise in ultra-Orthodox power.

"The biggest danger is that the Israeli body politic will allow the Jewish people to be disenfranchised by giving the ultra-Orthodox all the keys to Jewish identity," he said.

The majority of Israelis appear at odds with their religious authorities.

According to a recent survey conducted for Israel's Ministry of Diaspora Affairs, 63% of Israelis believe those converted by non-Orthodox rabbis should be regarded as Jews. The Shiluv pollster questioned a random selection of 507 Israelis and gave a margin of error of 4.5 percentage points.

But Moshe Gafni, an ultra-Orthodox lawmaker whose party is a key coalition member in Netanyahu's government, vows that Israel will not allow what he calls Chelsea Clinton-like weddings and "make-it-up-as-you-go" Judaism.

"We are not saying that someone who is Reform or Conservative is not Jewish. But they can't change the order of things here in Israel," he said. "The average Israeli wants the country to abide by the Jewish tradition ... You can't take the things most sacred to us and tear them to shreds."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/religio...ish31_ST_N.htm
__________________
Freibier gab's gestern

Hay burros en el maiz

RAP IS TO MUSIC WHAT ETCH-A-SKETCH IS TO ART

Don't drink and post.

"A nickel will get you on the subway, but garlic will get you a seat." - Old New York Yiddish Saying

"You can observe a lot just by watching." Yogi Berra

Old journeyman commenting on young apprentices - "Think about it, these are their old days"

SOMETIMES IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.

Never, ever, wear a bright colored shirt to a stand up comedy show.


Last edited by ilbegone; 11-07-2010 at 12:12 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-31-2011, 04:47 PM
Kathy63 Kathy63 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 380
Default

It sounds like the orthodox Jews in Israel isn't going to let an immigrant tell them what to do.

Which is as it should be.

Applying the word "democracy" to Israel and expecting it to be secular is pretty silly. Israel was created to be a homeland for Jews. The national religion is Judaism. This has nothing whatsoever with democracy which is a political process. Other religions are permitted to exist in Israel in peace which does not mean those religions have to be or are officially recognized. This is all ridiculous. If this woman does not like the majority's religion she can come back to America. She might be a tad too traditional for liberal Jews, but there are all kinds of Jews she just has to move to the right neighborhood.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-09-2011, 01:04 AM
Bear Flag Republican Bear Flag Republican is offline
Patriotic Pragmatic
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: 626/818
Posts: 101
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kathy63 View Post
It sounds like the orthodox Jews in Israel isn't going to let an immigrant tell them what to do.

Which is as it should be.

Applying the word "democracy" to Israel and expecting it to be secular is pretty silly. Israel was created to be a homeland for Jews. The national religion is Judaism. This has nothing whatsoever with democracy which is a political process. Other religions are permitted to exist in Israel in peace which does not mean those religions have to be or are officially recognized. This is all ridiculous. If this woman does not like the majority's religion she can come back to America. She might be a tad too traditional for liberal Jews, but there are all kinds of Jews she just has to move to the right neighborhood.
Kinda funny how they bitch and whine about what they allege to have happened in germany, but then they commit genocide and ethnically cleanse people who they took land away from at gunpoint ... do two wrongs make a right? do two genocides give crying mothers their dead sons back?
__________________
it's funny how those most aggresive of neo-con warhawks, refuse to acknowledge the war of invasion at our border. It almost seems as if they're worried about defending an entirely different country than our own.
it's time to put America first.

SMASH THE REDS! LIBERAL PROGRESSIVES: FLEE!

Arizona has spoken. Will America listen?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 09:04 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright SaveOurState 2009 - 2016 All Rights Reserved