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  #11  
Old 03-02-2010, 07:02 PM
Twoller Twoller is offline
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You two obviously work together. Maybe you are the same person posting under two different aliases.

I stand by what I say. The Nazis accused innocent and honorable people of being vermin. The Nazis themselves were the vermin and the illegal immigrant, Adolph Hitler was the worse vermin of them all. It was no wonder he needed to displace his own slimy soul onto innocent people. The illegal immigrants can easily seen to be vermin by their own criminality and behavior. They are vermin, else we would want them here. Amnesty would work and sensible people would support it.

Illegal immigrants are bad people and deserve any acrimony we can heap on them. We need to match contempt with contempt.
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  #12  
Old 03-02-2010, 08:42 PM
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ilbegone ilbegone is offline
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You show a lot of contempt for American citizens (who, by the way, have the right to vote) when you fail to distinguish between them and illegal aliens.

In your mind, they're all the same, and you alienate those of them who have been harmed by illegal immigration as much as anyone else as well as hand ammunition on those who would send you "back to Europe".

This is the high regard you hold those American citizens in:

Quote:
Sure, they consider themselves social conservatives in a sort of neanderthal reactionary way. All we have to do is look at Mexico itself and how people live there as an example of what they are talking about, we don't have to wait for some pollster to define it. The age of consent, for example.
All of them child molesting cavemen.

If that's not unmitigated, exploitable, blanket bigotry, I don't know what is.
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Last edited by ilbegone; 03-02-2010 at 10:42 PM.
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  #13  
Old 03-02-2010, 11:55 PM
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Recess everyone,

I would like to address the posts in here in a general sense, however tonight I'm a bit shallow in thought. In the interim, if everyone would first consider that not all of us have moderate or tempered responses about the illegals. We usually request a bit of restraint on the public forum because we are a charitable organization, and we would rather see those with powerful commentary aim it at their political parties, reps and appointees as opposed to the illegal alien population...for now anyway
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  #14  
Old 03-03-2010, 07:17 AM
Twoller Twoller is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilbegone View Post
You show a lot of contempt for American citizens (who, by the way, have the right to vote) when you fail to distinguish between them and illegal aliens.

In your mind, they're all the same, and you alienate those of them who have been harmed by illegal immigration as much as anyone else as well as hand ammunition on those who would send you "back to Europe".

This is the high regard you hold those American citizens in:

All of them child molesting cavemen.

If that's not unmitigated, exploitable, blanket bigotry, I don't know what is.
More lying, misrepresentation and spin. There is nothing to you. You are a tube.

As long as people continue to defend illegal immigrants and their enablers and evoke sympathy for them at this forum, then it should be the best strategy to provoke the more natural revulsion for them. Nobody posting here should be required to stand by peacably while other posters evoke sympathy for illegal immigrants, anchor babies and other frauds commited against real US citizenship.
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  #15  
Old 03-03-2010, 08:46 AM
PochoPatriot PochoPatriot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twoller View Post
More lying, misrepresentation and spin. There is nothing to you. You are a tube.
This is nothing but ad hominem. Do you, and your ilk, have a reasonable response to the points made?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Twoller View Post
As long as people continue to defend illegal immigrants and their enablers and evoke sympathy for them at this forum, then it should be the best strategy to provoke the more natural revulsion for them. Nobody posting here should be required to stand by peacably while other posters evoke sympathy for illegal immigrants, anchor babies and other frauds commited against real US citizenship.
Who exactly is attempting to "evoke sympathy" for illegal aliens? What has been asked is that the rhetoric from you, and your ilk, be toned down. I do not think that request is unreasonable.

Yes, you should be required to stand by peaceably. The purpose of this group is to make changes peaceably. If that does not line up with your agenda, then perhaps another board will do the trick for you, and your ilk.

ibegone is correct in his assessment of your posts. They are are hateful and uncivilized. While we may abhor what they do and have done to this country, they are still people, and, in my view, children of God. As such, they must be accorded respect and dignity. If you are unable to do that, then I am sure that there are other boards that would welcome you, and your ilk.

Many years ago, I heard Doug McIntyre say that he would not join the border security movement groups because of the propensity for these groups to attract racist people into their midst. When I first heard this I scoffed at it. I remember thinking that he must be a RINO (like some of you think). However, the longer I have been in the border security movement, the more I have seen his thoughts come to fruition. There are people like that in this movement, and they MUST be dealt with.

I have been called a person that hates whites. Why? Simply because I stand up and say that certain statements have racial and ethnic overtones. I find this laughable. I look at what a person does and not what skin color he/she has. Their actions are what I base my critique upon, and not the accident of skin pigmentation.

If dehumanizing people is part of your strategy, then I will not be a part of it, and I will will fight you every time you post that sort of trash. That stuff is best left in the past with the Nazis, the Khmer Rouge, and other ethnic cleansing campaigns.
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  #16  
Old 03-03-2010, 08:57 AM
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Since the recess bell has been ignored, we are now going to a timeout with this thread.
The forum is a valuable tool for us, however it should not be used as a placebo for the symptoms of illegal immigration. I think everyone here is on the same page that illegal immigration should be stopped. I believe most here believe in deportation as a big part of the solution. The methods of achieving that are where we begin to see cracks in our unity. Please don't let those cracks turn into crevasses by getting overly absorbed in a discussion. Talk is cheap, you know, and it often accomplishes nothing more than making those involved in that form of intercourse feel better or worse. Addressing your feelings is a necessary component of relationships here, but we are an action based organization, and it wouldn't fit in with our agenda to have everyone caught up in arguments over what may be irrelevant conversation in the end. By irrelevant conversation, I refer to making brash statements that are unsupported in practice. The "hunting them down" portion of this thread is precisely at issue. I don't know if Twoller is actively engaged in that practice, but I have not seen anything concrete to support that, so I'll assume for the moment that the answer is no. And if the answer is no, why get your fellow American citizens angry at you for repeatedly hammering the point that it should be done when you can see there is some resistance to it, the methods you propose, or the manner in which you express it? My guess is, that if Twoller was engaged in the process of evicting the illegals, and that process was practical and bore results that were relayed on this forum, we'd most likely be seeing a different type of attitude in everyone's postings, because as mentioned earlier, most want the illegals deported. But as everyone can see, there is a little disgust for posts made for the sole purpose of stirring up emotional reactions.
With that addressed, we also should be careful not to fall into the oppositions tactics of pulling the nazi card out on other posters. To our competition, the mere mention of deportation is enough to label you a cold hearted, hate mongering racist nazi. Some of those terms they mean, and some they just use, but most of us realize that enforcing the law is a necessary evil, and someone has to do it. So how do the ones that do sleep at night? Well, they know there is a principle to uphold, that's why. So they throw themselves into a mindset and get the job done. Sometimes we see that mindset become overly aggressive, and it's ok to remind someone tactfully that they might be losing perspective. But please try and remember that the greatest personal mental injury can come from those who lob insults of the racial or hate mongering caliber from within our own ranks.
In closing here, please remember when making commentary here of the type that might seem inflammatory and/or provoking in relation to our agenda, that those of us actively engaged in the pursuit of our agenda in a personal and public manner have to support, defend, or at least address what is written here during the course of our activities. Please don't complicate the already difficult task unneccessarily, and for little, or no rewards. In addition, remember that most of us here are harboring some sort of deep rooted grudges in relation to immigration, so there are bound to be some disrespectful attitudes slipping out occassionaly. A little sympathy for each other should be extended first, prior to any harsh rebuttal.
The thread will be closed for 24 hours. Please try a little more restraint when it re-opens.

Last edited by admin; 03-03-2010 at 09:00 AM.
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  #17  
Old 03-05-2010, 06:14 PM
DerailAmnesty.com DerailAmnesty.com is offline
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There are two Save Our States. I came to realize this after I had been a member for about 6 weeks (back in '06).

There is the message board Save Our State and there is the real world SOS. The two overlap about 20%. In my experience, the former is commonly where the "trouble" or most pronounced extremism comes from. Usually there is a collection of people who post and are rarely or never seen at rallies and other functions. Their SOS existence is limited to the internet. On the rare occasions I've heard white supremacist sentiments or Anti-Semitism from my fellow border security advocates, it has come from folks who never show their faces, march down hostile streets, get behind police barricades, patrol a day labor site or stand in the rain waving signs at passing traffic.

Most people whose activism is limited to internet discussions are not extremists or embarrassments. But for as long as I can recall, there has always been a vocal minority of SOS folks who flame, engage in hate speech, mouth sentiments out-of-step with opinions of most SOS members, and generally take full advantage of the cocoon of anonymity that internet message boards offer.

I can recall people openly discussing potential alliances with skinheads when "fighting in the streets breaks out." I distinctly remember two individuals getting upset with things I wrote, and then reading posts about Jews only being loyal to "their own kind," not trusting "goyim," and using the immigration issue to "divide patriots." Further, the most vile anti-Hispanic rhetoric I've seen on our website (past and present) has always come from people I've never met.

Insofar as the dozens of events I've attended in So. California, I've never gotten so much as a whiff that the people with whom I was protesting possessed racial animosity, ethnic bigotry or had boiled the immigration debate down to a skin color contest. Border Raven, AmericanPatriot77, Ray and Robin, JeanfromFillmore, Ole Glory, Foothillpages.com, PochoPatriot, Lupe, Watchdog, OldPreach, GSBAmerica, Jalira, Weasel, Tim55, Borderwatch, Kingfish, TheBob ... hell, even Chelene. I know the people who have taken public stands and engaged in SOS activism. They're not racists. I've worked and appeared with these folks repeatedly. Nothing could be further from the truth.

The reality is that we live in a free expression driven country and tolerate most types of speech in our everyday lives and on our boards. Resultingly, a small percentage of it is going to be ugly and not reflect accurately upon the organization. If I thought any of the things described in the 4th paragraph (above) were accurate depictions of my cohorts on the streets, I'd have bailed out of SOS a long time ago.
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  #18  
Old 03-05-2010, 07:43 PM
Twoller Twoller is offline
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I've said it before, I'll say it again. The only reason I registered here at this forum is to discuss illegal immigration. I post at a lot of bulletin boards like this and the vast majority of other posters have always been anonymous. I live a long way from Southern California and I'm very hesitant to attend public demonstrations with people I do not know very, very well.

If the administrators have problems with people posting here who are not active on the streets, it would be very simple to insist on in person registration. Nobody could post who had not attended a rally or in some way contributed to SOS directly to the satisfaction of the administrators. This is entirely reasonable to me. I'm not trying to get away with anything. I found the site on the internet and that's the only association I am interested in. I don't care who the other posters are personally, only what you are willing to express as an opinion. I have seen too many people post on bulletin boards under assumed and false personalities. That's fine with me, as long as your intentions are benign or at least unconfrontational. Otherwise, you need to represent yourself as honestly as you can and show, at the very least, the integrity suggested for written correspondence. You can get away with a lot of weird parlor games in face to face relationships that you can never get away with in print.
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  #19  
Old 03-05-2010, 08:54 PM
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ilbegone ilbegone is offline
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It's easy to say a lot of things under the cloak of internet anonymity which would never be said face to face.

I also suspect that avatars such as of superheros and fantastic ferocious beasts and intergalactic super beings tend to belong belong to fat guys who haven't left the couch in ages.

I believe there are some things to keep in mind.

There are people who have no other life than to discredit any advocacy of immigration law enforcement. They will tirelessly search straw by straw through the whole haystack to find needle like "evidence" of racism, then blanket smear the whole group as though commentary by people who are anonymous "associates" (or faceless "members") in name only mandate organizational policy.

There are some real nuts out there amongst the open borders group, who's obsession with race far outstrips anything to be found among pro immigration law enforcement, and who tend towards violence. The SPLC will never call them on it, and LEOs have been known to let them do their thing on the street - all because of the deliberate smearing of pro immigration law enforcement advocates.

If someone runs their mouth in an offensive manner on the internet board, which I believe functions mainly to get the word out and as a recruitment tool, it makes those who faithfully go to protests look bad and subject to physical violence, as well as disgust and repel people who might otherwise participate on the behalf of SOS.

For obvious reasons, it's never wise to give your enemy a crate of live grenades.
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Freibier gab's gestern

Hay burros en el maiz

RAP IS TO MUSIC WHAT ETCH-A-SKETCH IS TO ART

Don't drink and post.

"A nickel will get you on the subway, but garlic will get you a seat." - Old New York Yiddish Saying

"You can observe a lot just by watching." Yogi Berra

Old journeyman commenting on young apprentices - "Think about it, these are their old days"

SOMETIMES IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.

Never, ever, wear a bright colored shirt to a stand up comedy show.


Last edited by ilbegone; 03-05-2010 at 09:04 PM.
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  #20  
Old 03-06-2010, 08:33 AM
PochoPatriot PochoPatriot is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Twoller View Post
I've said it before, I'll say it again. The only reason I registered here at this forum is to discuss illegal immigration. I post at a lot of bulletin boards like this and the vast majority of other posters have always been anonymous. I live a long way from Southern California and I'm very hesitant to attend public demonstrations with people I do not know very, very well.

If the administrators have problems with people posting here who are not active on the streets, it would be very simple to insist on in person registration. Nobody could post who had not attended a rally or in some way contributed to SOS directly to the satisfaction of the administrators. This is entirely reasonable to me. I'm not trying to get away with anything. I found the site on the internet and that's the only association I am interested in. I don't care who the other posters are personally, only what you are willing to express as an opinion. I have seen too many people post on bulletin boards under assumed and false personalities. That's fine with me, as long as your intentions are benign or at least unconfrontational. Otherwise, you need to represent yourself as honestly as you can and show, at the very least, the integrity suggested for written correspondence. You can get away with a lot of weird parlor games in face to face relationships that you can never get away with in print.
In the past, on the old SOS, we discussed membership requirements. It ranged from regular attendance of SOS events (impractical for members not in So. Cal.), to the payment of dues (which I believe is the best), to both (impractical). Either way, this group needs both internet soldiers and foot soldiers to be effective. What we all should do, and I am pointing the finger at myself first, is scale back on some of the inflammatory rhetoric used against illegal aliens and our opponents.

Second, I do not think it is appropriate to allow posts that glorify KKK rallies on this board. One of the things that drew me to SOS in the first place was that leading the way was not only she who will not be named, but also Ted Hayes, Col. Al Valdez, Lupe Moreno, Frank Jorge, Sam Z. and other people of color. I saw this and instantly knew that this organization was not ethnocentric, but open to people of races, colors and ethnic groups that were opposed to the illegal invasion.

Third, I will not agree with everything you say, and I will voice my disagreement. However, I respect your right to say it (provided it is within the guidelines of this forum). I am not advocating political correctness, rather I think that we can be more civil. Simple as that.
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