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Immigration Pushed To The Forefront Again.... Thanks! To Everyone Who Has Propelled This Issue To Its' Rightful Position. Years Of Hard Work Are Paying Off.....Keep Up The Good Work!......
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Old 01-31-2013, 11:25 PM
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Ayatollahgondola Ayatollahgondola is offline
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Default Ayatollah's Amnesty Battle Advice

By now, we should be as good as our opposition for 1/10th of the price.

You have to remember that the illegal's lobby is fighting us, not the other way around. I know it may seem inversely so, due to the barrage of media propaganda that continually portray the burgeoning latino population as this unstoppable stampede of power and might, but at this point, they are still quite in the minority and very dependent upon the media's tenuous grip of the American information network. Politicians are not always so trusting of what they see on TV though, because they have to actually be concerned about the ballot box results, not what NBC says. They do understand the term "upset" where political races are concerned.
Anyway, the law is already cast, and the latino lobby is the one who has to spend big to try and sway votes. We just have to defend the fort, and we already have lots of practice. We don't have to learn a lot of new things here, but rather make the very, very best of what we already know. We know who to call...Congress and the Senate. We generally know how to interact with them...polite but stern, knowledgeable but not supreme. We also know what has worked in the past as a defense against the illegals lobby:

Cost of legalization

The sacrificing of our values

The weakening of our defenses

The failures of the previous amnesty


With that bit of knowledge as our guide, let's go on to some newer items for your consideration.

We've been reading alot from our usual allies in this battle, and they have been offering some good points. On the economy side, there are a lot of arguments about the benefits of legalization as far as tax revenue. We all know that some illegals pay taxes and some work underground. I see weakness in both of these areas. Let's start with those who pay. If they get green cards and temporary work status, they can pay taxes...but.....they can also get refunds. The feds allow you to claim refunds up to 3 years ago. If an illegal worked under a false number for x number of years, and then was fearless about coming clean with the past, they could file 3 years worth of returns, claiming all of the earned income credits and anything else, and demand a refund of all monies paid into the account they "wrongly" used during that period. What would inspire them to come clean you ask? Why H & R Block would, that's who. There'd be an advertising barrage in S-Pan-Yol about 6 months or less after any status was granted, urging all recent green carder's to contact the Liberty Tax, or H & R Block company to claim your refunds before the time runs out! I smell a run on the treasury there. Sure the feds will pay them with newly printed dollars that seem to come from the magical money tree, but there are still congresspersons and senators that stress about the wallet. They may not realize the retroactive consequence of legalizing the cheaters.

Not that the treasury is the only ones that should be worried about retroactivity. Emboldened illegals will be encouraged to report all the bosses that have been paying them under the table or otherwise taking liberties with the employment laws. An illegal isn't going to suffer if he reports that he worked for cash for Jim's Plastering for the past 4 years; that's not how the system works. Jim's Plastering will be who the IRS holds responsible for the money NOT withheld Jose's paycheck. Every Jim's Plastering, or Mike's homebuilder's needs to be made aware of this. At present, those companies that have employed people unlawfully might be thinking how great it may be to finally have their treasured low wage workers legalized so they won't have to fear losing them to the deportation bogeyman, or so they can get a drivers license. They may not be so eager if they are advised that they could easily be liable for 3 years worth of taxes, penalties, and interest for improper withholding. And why wouldn't Jose report him? Jose is now legal to move about the country, and get a job anywhere. No need for loyalties now

This brings us to another, largely unexplored, but likely unintended consequence of legalization: Unemployment benefits. Illegals granted legal status would be subject to the state laws on unemployment benefits, and states would be powerless to stop them from immediately applying based upon monies owed, but not collected from previous employers the prior two or so years. The laws are written as such. The employees are the victims, and the state the deep pockets. They front the money once the employment has been established, and then go after the employer...if they're still standing after the IRS has already gotten to them. The states administer the unemployment system, but the feds have been subsidizing them for decades. California owes the feds millions already for money lent to cover years worth of unemployment checks during this seemingly interminable last recession, and this would compound the debt and exacerbate the problem. Both the state and the feds should be considering where they will be coughing up this unplanned stress on their coffers.

And then comes the last bit of worrisome prospects, the ones who don't pay taxes. Legal residents are eligible for welfare benefits that they have been previously denied. This means all the mothers and fathers who had before, only managed the money that welfare granted to their American born children, will immediately be able to apply for benefits themselves, or as heads of households. Let's face reality on one thing; it ain't 11 million, it's 17 million illegals, and they're still a'comin' as of today. Anyone with half a brain knows that all of them don't work, can't work, or don't really want to anymore. You've seen them lying on serapes at parks, peddling pushcarts full of homemade bacteria laden foods, or just sitting at home on the porch with a trash can overflowing with crushed cardboard 12 pack beer cartons. These folks will not be going to work in motels, building bridges, or mowing lawns. They can't. They're overweight, smell of beer, and don't like authority. They'll mooch off the system, and legally so now. We could easily see a 6 million bump in welfare recipient applicants almost overnight. I say almost overnight, because just like H & R Block jumping on the tax refund bandwagon, there'll be a bunch of former ambulance chasing latino law firms speading ads all across the barrios in every US city enticing recently granted illegals to come on into the office and let us show you how to get your free welfare check, just like the ones you see on late night TV now urging lazy people how to get SSI checks because you are "disabled". And who says that a significant portion of the 17 million aren't elegible for the minimum SSI check for being disabled too?

These are a few of the unplanned-for, and undiscussed side effects of an amnesty. We need to spread these points far and wide, and express them to our reps in washington. we also need to inform every employer out there that if you've been paying an illegal for any definable length of time, an amnesty is ticking monetary time bomb with the potential to draw the auditors from either the feds, the state, or both to their offices with a magnifying glass and the power to penalize and lein.

I'm going to add in one last thought for everyone to hit their senators with right now in regards to an amnesty. Right now, gun control is a hot, hot subject. Guns on the streets, guns in the hands of criminals, guns in the hands of mentally unstable people are the most common terms we've been hammered with in the news.
They're worried in Washington about how many guns are sold in America each year. So what happens then, when you grant 15 or even 12 million illegals a green card? That's lawful permanent status, even if only temporarily so. This means, for the feds anyway, that they can legally buy, own, and use whatever guns are legal to have in what state they reside in. Background checks are going to be a bit sketchy on an illegal, because they might not have much history, beings' that they may have been using false ID's in their past lives. Ask your gun hating senators whether an amnestied illegal is good to go to buy a gun if they can pass the backround check currently proposed to be eligible for legal status? Remember that many municipalities have purposely been witholding felony charges in favor of misdemeanors so that illegals wouldn't face deportation proceedings after felony convictions. Aside from the outrage that existing citizens who have been convicted of felonies for similar crimes that illegals have recieved favorable treatment for, do your senators want to suddenly unleash 12 million gun buying foreigners in the low income areas where most of them currently reside? I don't see anywhere in the current amnesty where that has been considered, nor the value of any background check has on a person who has made a lifetime habit of fraud, deciet and subterfuge where identity is concerned

Make your calls ladies and gentlemen. Plant the seeds of doubt in Washington!

Davi Rodrigues

Save Our State

Last edited by Ayatollahgondola; 01-31-2013 at 11:37 PM.
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Old 02-01-2013, 08:15 AM
ohighlass ohighlass is offline
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Default Excellent!

Davi, Thanks for this. It is very insightful and highlights many of the problems amnesty will cause, things I have never thought about. I will use it when I compose my letters and as back up for my verbal confrontations.

It all makes sense....amnesty is not the answer....unless, of course, you WANT to bankrupt our already fragile economy.
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Old 02-01-2013, 10:07 AM
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Ayatollahgondola Ayatollahgondola is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohighlass View Post
Davi, Thanks for this. It is very insightful and highlights many of the problems amnesty will cause, things I have never thought about. I will use it when I compose my letters and as back up for my verbal confrontations.

It all makes sense....amnesty is not the answer....unless, of course, you WANT to bankrupt our already fragile economy.
Thanks for reading Lassie, and do spread the link around so others can benefit from my worldly insight, or mindless bloviation, depending on which side of the Ayatollah credibility factor you happen to be on.
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Old 02-01-2013, 10:24 AM
ohighlass ohighlass is offline
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Default Lol

OF COURSE!!! Already done.
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Old 02-01-2013, 11:13 AM
Greg in LA Greg in LA is offline
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Great advice!

I used the 12 million new gun owners on Boxer and Feinslime today. I really like it, as they're trying to confiscate guns. I would love them to know that they are bringing in millions on new gun owners. I know that they don't care, but it's just more reasons to keep calling them.

Thanks for the letter.
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Old 02-01-2013, 11:21 AM
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Ayatollahgondola Ayatollahgondola is offline
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Originally Posted by Greg in LA View Post
I would love them to know that they are bringing in millions on new gun owners. I know that they don't care, but it's just more reasons to keep calling them.

Thanks for the letter.
I think they will care once the reality of that sinks in. I doubt they will be as comfortable with the premise of 12 million people more likely voting democrat than they would 12 million being anti gun

Actually, you might want to read my second bloviation on the gun issue that explains it more in depth:

http://saveourstate.info/showthread.php?t=7552

Last edited by Ayatollahgondola; 02-01-2013 at 11:24 AM.
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Old 02-01-2013, 12:38 PM
LAPhil LAPhil is offline
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Unfortunately the Republican Party doesn't seem to have anyone with a prayer of winning any major election who values or even sees the importance of these things. To them the only thing that matters is pandering to the Latino community for votes since so few Hispanics voted for Romney in the last election, and they really don't care if selling out on illegal immigration conflicts with what's really good for the country. And the Catch-22 is that without winning elections we can never stop amnesty. And as for the Democratic Party, well, what more can you say? Follow the money.
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"I entirely reject the concept, however, of "anchor babies." If parents are found to be here illegally, then the whole family, children as well, should be sent back to the parents' country of origin."

Last edited by LAPhil; 02-01-2013 at 12:43 PM.
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Old 02-01-2013, 05:26 PM
Greg in LA Greg in LA is offline
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I tried the 12-20 million new gun owners in the poorest neighborhoods in America. I have to say it came off of my tongue smoothly and the call takers at Feinslime and Boxers office actually listened.

I think I'm reserving this argument for the Democrat's, because they're the ones who want gun control and less guns.
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Old 02-01-2013, 10:26 PM
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Ayatollahgondola Ayatollahgondola is offline
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Originally Posted by Greg in LA View Post
I tried the 12-20 million new gun owners in the poorest neighborhoods in America. I have to say it came off of my tongue smoothly and the call takers at Feinslime and Boxers office actually listened.

I think I'm reserving this argument for the Democrat's, because they're the ones who want gun control and less guns.
I'd say the republicans have villainized the democrats as being anti gun, the same way the democrats have villainized the republicans as being anti immigrant. I think the truth is though, that by the time you reach the stature and power of congressperson or senator, you fear an armed populace equally so, whether you are a democrat or a republican. That's one of the inherent seductions of power and priviledge. But relating to your strategy, I think that republicans being more law 'n' order oriented, might be as receptive to pause on the amnesty steam roller to address this unplanned problem. Rubio, for instance, is in Florida, a state with a lot of illegals, gun crimes, and an earlier history of foreign drug gangs fighting it out on the streets of large cities. Even a war mongering latino panderer like him remembers how bad the violence was back then, and might not want to revive those days again.
You just have to remind him, and other republicans that these people have been taught that the federal laws can be ignored. We've conditioned them to corruption. Now we're going to allow them to arm themselves legally, within our communities.
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Old 02-02-2013, 07:31 AM
LAPhil LAPhil is offline
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I'm having trouble understanding the connection between the guns and amnesty issues. Are we assuming that more illegal aliens = more illegal guns? Or just more guns, period? I don't see how that follows.
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"I entirely reject the concept, however, of "anchor babies." If parents are found to be here illegally, then the whole family, children as well, should be sent back to the parents' country of origin."

Last edited by LAPhil; 02-02-2013 at 07:49 AM.
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