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Immigration Pushed To The Forefront Again.... Thanks! To Everyone Who Has Propelled This Issue To Its' Rightful Position. Years Of Hard Work Are Paying Off.....Keep Up The Good Work!......
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  #11  
Old 10-05-2013, 07:19 PM
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Ayatollahgondola Ayatollahgondola is offline
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But now look at how SOS has dwindled as well as other similar movements which we hardly ever hear from anymore.
You have as much or as little power as you want. But regardless of what you see here now, we are still reaping all the rewards of our earlier hard work. People are educated more now, and they're using the information that they learned from us to write their reps in congress. Amnesty had better chances in years past than it does now. The reason for that is people are hammering their reps and voting or donating. They learned about DL centers from us, and we spread other groups efforts alongside. I think you may be underrating your past efforts
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  #12  
Old 10-05-2013, 08:33 PM
Greg in LA Greg in LA is offline
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Ayatollah,

I agree with you that although things look like all is lost in California, I am proud to tell you that we are not yet defeated. In fact we are a long way away from being defeated.

Though things look bleak It's important for all of us in the fight against open borders and for American sovereignty to acknowledge who we have been fighting. We've been fighting the wealthiest and most powerful groups and individuals in this country, and despite the monolithic powers that we are up against,they haven't yet gotten the amnesty and immigration surge that they desperately want.

We're fighting the globalist business interest, the Chambers of Commerce from California to Maine, The wealthy Tech sector, the Unions, The largest and most powerful business interest, virtually all the wealthiest billionaires in America, from Bill Gates to Soros, Adelson, Zuckerberg, and the Kotch Brothers. The Catholic Church and the Main line Protestant Churches want us to surrender our borders. The entire Democrat Party is against us and embraces open borders. The establishment elite of the Republican party have joined their opposition and are more than happy to put the country on the auction block.
The entire main stream media in the US denigrates our side daily, and has done so for decades.

In short we are standing up against the entire, money and political power elite of the United States.

Despite this enormous army that we've been up against this last 7+ years, they still haven't got their precious amnesty for illegal aliens, despite many attempts.

One can only wonder Why a group with this much money and power hasn't gotten what they are after?

After all we're basically a rag tag army, of nobody's with few connections, very little representation in Congress, no disposable income, almost no paid lobbyist's in Washington, no super wealthy supporters and many of us are retired or unemployed.
It's truly a David VS. Goliath situation.
In fact it's amazing that they haven't crushed us like a bug long ago.

Let me tell you, the people that we are standing up against are not use to being stopped.

Just encase you don't know the reason why we haven't been defeated, and the opposition hasn't yet been successful in achieving an amnesty is because of the simple reason that, we are right and they are wrong, and the vast majority of Americans (though not always paying attention to the crisis) are with us on this issue.

To defeat us is to literally defeat the American nation, and rip the sovereignty of this country from the rightful owners of our land.
A vote for amnesty is nothing short of treason, and Americans know it.

I am very proud to tell you that we Americans have not yet been defeated!


I'm even more proud to tell you that I believe if the power elite that is currently pushing the amnesty in Congress isn't successful in this attempt it will be a major and crushing defeat for them, and they know it.

Yes, things in California currently look bad, but be patient and think how things might look in six months if the amnesty is defeated in Washington.

It's a fact worth noting that after every victory we have had in defeating amnesty our side has grown stronger. If we are victorious in defeating the amnesty in Washington, we will move boldly and stronger from that victory and refocus our efforts then on the State level.
I believe Gov. Brown and the open border elites will then have much to fear from an embolden and stronger anti illegal alien offensive.

The news media pronounced us dead long ago, but if it was true, why don't they have their amnesty?
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  #13  
Old 10-05-2013, 08:46 PM
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Ayatollahgondola Ayatollahgondola is offline
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Originally Posted by Greg in LA View Post
The news media pronounced us dead long ago, but if it was true, why don't they have their amnesty?
It isn't just us they are fighting. They are also trying to out maneuver each other. The republicans don't want the Dems to get the political upper hand from any amnesty, and vice-verse. Their are many competing interests vying for a benefit, but without giving their competition the same edge. Plus there are many unions of technical and vocational aspects pressuring congress not to sell out the voters that have the jobs now, but are already finding the market under fire from visa holders. We could go on and on here, but we are hardly alone. A blanket amnesty is not going to make everyone happy except us. Farmers, for example, realize that amnesty allows the workers to move on to other jobs. They squawk like hell about needing workers and how comprehensive approaches will work best and all, but in the end they want workers, cheap and under their thumb. Amnesty won't give them that
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  #14  
Old 10-05-2013, 08:46 PM
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ilbegone ilbegone is offline
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LA Phil, JB Parrothead, you're fired, and all...

Relatively speaking Governor Moonbeam and state attorney Kamala Harris are actually moderates in Sacramento. It could be much, much worse.

Sure, they violate Federal law, but the community organizer and his executive employees are making a conscious effort NOT to enforce the law concerning things such as California legislative shenanigans.

2014 needs to bring in enough new congressmen and federal senators to box in and over ride Obama, and 2016 needs to bring in a president who will enforce the laws of the land without picking and choosing which ones he will enforce or manipulating the manner they are enforced, and such a president will sue those political figures and states which don't fall in line with those federal laws.

Now go to work organizing so that such a thing will happen.
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  #15  
Old 10-06-2013, 06:35 AM
LAPhil LAPhil is offline
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Originally Posted by Ayatollahgondola View Post
Phil, you are letting open-borders voodoo run amok in your head. This is precisely what they want. These state legislative remedies are meant to be like Tokyo Rose broadcasts. They mock, they chide, they antagonize. Many of these new signings are laws that go nowhere. the legislature is famous for passing laws that are in practice...useless. Take the license for illegals one for example. The governor stated something to the effect that millions of them would get license. The truth is that there is not millions of them here. We might have 2 million, maybe more, but only the ones who don't have warrants out for them, aren't actively ducking an ICE investigation are going to apply, and many of those aren't going to make the trip because they don't speak enough english to be licensed. We might see 500,000 actually apply and get a license. Not that it isn't an insult to us, but really, it's not as big a blow as having the sky fall.
The reporting of illegals thing isn't going to affect much at all. it'll affect some businesses who are already cheating, so it won't make a real difference to us.

Take a look through these new laws, and you'll see it is much more bark than bite. We can fight back and make them even more useless.
OK, that's all very encouraging. What do you suggest we do now? How do we fight back?
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  #16  
Old 10-06-2013, 08:27 AM
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Ayatollahgondola Ayatollahgondola is offline
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Originally Posted by LAPhil View Post
OK, that's all very encouraging. What do you suggest we do now? How do we fight back?
Over the next few weeks, we will post some counter strategies. I've been working a few already.
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  #17  
Old 10-06-2013, 12:07 PM
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ilbegone ilbegone is offline
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Originally Posted by JB_Parrothead View Post
So what can be done about it? I haven't been on this site in quite a while and it looks like we're still banging our heads against a brick wall and still complaining about the same old crap.

Impeachment proceedings need to be implemented. Our representatives do not represent us.
Respectfully, what are you willing to do besides complain?

Being right is not enough to win. Success is dependent on the number and effectiveness of activists regardless of who's right or wrong, and a single issue platform loses steam after a while. Lack of money to operate on doesn't help while an organizer becoming used to living on a cause turns the cause into that of supporting the organizer. There needs to be a source of operational funds while the organizer avoids becoming an embezzler.

In the meantime, the word "patriot" has been prostituted so much over the last decade by megalomaniacal power trippers and paranoid nut balls it's almost a pejorative, I've gotten to where I despise the word because of the way it's been misused.

Davi works tirelessly, doesn't give up against great odds and is very inclusive. Those on the other side sometimes hate one another but keep their discord between themselves and publicly work together towards a goal rather than endlessly stabbing each other in the back like so many of those right of center do. Minor disagreements become deal breakers and bridge burners center of right, and it needs to end or there will be no progress.

Correctly identify your enemies and don't give them ammunition to use against you - such as obvious propaganda, broadcasting bad information, hijacking the message with far, far right fringe lunacy, or statements which reflect a genuine obsession with race. If the illegals are an enemy, so are the American politicians, American employers, American open borders lobbyists, American churches seeking a congregation as well as meddling in Ceaser's affairs and anyone or anything else who uses them to screw you out of a job, your tax "contributions", a quality education, or anything else you want to blame on illegals.

"They" use the lower class (buying votes and warm bodies with tax base subsidies); propagandized middle class college graduates; the moneyed, Swiss bank account liberals who hypocritically dodge taxes through loopholes favoring themselves while pushing for more taxes on the middle class to fund "progressive" socialism.

All we have is a shrinking middle class to work with, many of them aren't sure which way to turn, others are just comfortable enough to wait to see whichever way the wind turns - hoping it doesn't turn on themselves.

We have to reach those people.

Davi is working extremely hard on the local level concerning illegal imigration and the ills which come with it, and there also needs to be a focus on the national level in order to help Davi prosecute the cause. The 2014 elections needs to bring a majority to congress which can over ride presidential vetoes and put an end to the current abuse of the executive order privilege and 2016 a president who will put the California legislature, Jerry Brown, and Kamala Harris in their places concerning illegal migration and other other far left crap which finds itself being voted into state law in the dead of night with no legislative debate or public transparency.

Again, and respectfully, what are you going to do to personally bring this about?

Merely complaining about illegal immigration; petty name calling like "jalapeno suckers" or "cockroaches"; and focusing on race as though race is an indication of illegality isn't going to do it.
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Last edited by ilbegone; 10-06-2013 at 01:04 PM.
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  #18  
Old 10-06-2013, 12:53 PM
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Ayatollahgondola Ayatollahgondola is offline
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Originally Posted by ilbegone View Post
Respectfully, what are you willing to do besides complain?

Being right is not enough to win. Success is dependent on the number and effectiveness of activists regardless of who's right or wrong, and a single issue platform loses steam after a while. Lack of money to operate on doesn't help while an organizer becoming used to living on a cause turns the cause into supporting the organizer. There needs to be a source of operational funds while the organizer avoids become an embezzler.

In the meantime, the word "patriot" has been prostituted so much much by power trippers and nut balls it's almost a pejorative, I've gotten to where I despise the word because of the way it's been misused.

Davi works tirelessly, doesn't give up against great odds and is very inclusive. Those on the other side sometimes hate one another but keep their discord between themselves and publicly work together towards a goal rather than endlessly stabbing each other in the back like so many of those right of center do. Minor disagreements become deal breakers and bridge burners center of right, and it needs to end or there will be no progress.

Correctly identify your enemies and don't give them ammunition to use against you - such as obvious propaganda, bad information, or statements which reflect a genuine obsession with race. If the illegals are an enemy, so are the American politicians, American employers, American open borders lobbyists, American churches seeking a congregation and anyone or anything else who uses them to screw you out of a job, your tax "contributions", a quality education, or anything else you want to blame on illegals.

"They" use the lower class (buying votes and warm bodies with tax base subsidies); propagandized middle class college graduates; the moneyed, Swiss bank account liberals who hypocritically dodge taxes through loopholes favoring themselves while pushing for more taxes on the middle class to fund "progressive" socialism.

All we have is a shrinking middle class to work with, many of them aren't sure which way to turn, others are just comfortable enough to wait to see whichever way the wind turns - hoping it doesn't turn on themselves.

We have to reach those people.

Davi is working extremely hard on the local level concerning illegal imigration and the ills which come with it, and there also needs to be a focus on the national level in order to help Davi prosecute the cause. The 2014 elections needs to bring a majority to congress which can over ride presidential vetoes and put an end to the current abuse of the executive order privilege and a president who will put the California legislature, Jerry Brown, and Kamala Harris in their places concerning illegal migration and other other far left crap which finds itself being voted into state law in the dead of night with no legislative debate or public transparency.

Again, and respectfully, what are you going to do to personally bring this about?

Merely complaining about illegal immigration and focusing on race as though race is an indication of illegality isn't going to do it.
Thanks for the kind words, however I'm just a small cog in a planetary transmission system. And I think my tireless efforts as you describe are more attributable to eternal stubbornness, not they are exclusive to one another. I don't think we'll ever quash the racism label, simply because we do have racism at work on all sides of the immigration debate to some degree. That shouldn't be a deterrent though. More people want immigration enforcement for other reasons than those trying to press any real racial agenda. I also don't believe anyone chiming in in this thread thus far has any racial motives

I won't and cannot assume that people are doing nothing. Because we have a stalemate in congress, it has to be due to resistance, and that's not just from the moneyed players and power brokers. So people are driving the train, but California has been on its' own separate track for some years now. It's not new; Southern states like Mississippi and Alabama tried to go their own way in the 60's, and the courts, marchers, and...well, stubbornness forced them to get with the program. California has been flexing independent muscle in entering treaties, which aren't as yet sanctioned by the feds, so it's very possible we have a day of reckoning coming. I sure hope so, but we need legal championing. That, of course, takes bigger bucks than we even hope to have. And I don't mean just SOS.

We're going to keep probing, testing, and voicing until we find things that work, and for now we'll just have to keep doing it for nothing

Welcome Back JBParrothead.
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  #19  
Old 10-06-2013, 01:52 PM
LAPhil LAPhil is offline
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Originally Posted by ilbegone View Post
Respectfully, what are you willing to do besides complain?

The 2014 elections needs to bring a majority to congress which can over ride presidential vetoes and put an end to the current abuse of the executive order privilege and 2016 a president who will put the California legislature, Jerry Brown, and Kamala Harris in their places concerning illegal migration and other other far left crap which finds itself being voted into state law in the dead of night with no legislative debate or public transparency.

Again, and respectfully, what are you going to do to personally bring this about?
Ilbegone:
You said quite a mouthful in that post, and I greatly respect your knowledge in this area. The part I quoted here is the part I have questions for you about. First of all, while what you say is correct, how would you bring this about when not only is the current political climate in California more liberal than ever, but it seems that for all of Obama's failings the Democratic party still has considerably more support than the Republicans nationwide, and the illegal immigration issue breaks down pretty much along party lines? Not 100%, but there are a lot more Republicans in Congress who feel as we do than there are Democrats. I think it was really unfortunate that Romney lost in 2012 because he was the only candidate who supported self-deportation for illegals who are already here, and look where that got him. Therefore we at least need to get a majority in congress in 2014, which means not only a Republican controlled House but Senate as well if we want to start getting things turned around. I doubt however that there will be 67 Republican senators elected in 2014, which is what it would take to override a Presidential veto

So my question to you is how do you suggest we go about this? You said we all need to do something, but what exactly? Do we try to change a lot of Democratic hearts and minds or do we need to get more Republicans to turn out and vote? This is what frustrates me so much, because I don't have an answer. I'd like to hear yours.
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"I entirely reject the concept, however, of "anchor babies." If parents are found to be here illegally, then the whole family, children as well, should be sent back to the parents' country of origin."

Last edited by LAPhil; 10-06-2013 at 03:46 PM.
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  #20  
Old 10-06-2013, 05:44 PM
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ilbegone ilbegone is offline
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Ilbegone:
You said quite a mouthful in that post, and I greatly respect your knowledge in this area. The part I quoted here is the part I have questions for you about. First of all, while what you say is correct, how would you bring this about when not only is the current political climate in California more liberal than ever, but it seems that for all of Obama's failings the Democratic party still has considerably more support than the Republicans nationwide, and the illegal immigration issue breaks down pretty much along party lines? Not 100%, but there are a lot more Republicans in Congress who feel as we do than there are Democrats. I think it was really unfortunate that Romney lost in 2012 because he was the only candidate who supported self-deportation for illegals who are already here, and look where that got him. Therefore we at least need to get a majority in congress in 2014, which means not only a Republican controlled House but Senate as well if we want to start getting things turned around. I doubt however that there will be 67 Republican senators elected in 2014, which is what it would take to override a Presidential veto

So my question to you is how do you suggest we go about this? You said we all need to do something, but what exactly? Do we try to change a lot of Democratic hearts and minds or do we need to get more Republicans to turn out and vote? This is what frustrates me so much, because I don't have an answer. I'd like to hear yours.
Capitalize on the disgust which the administration has so rightly earned since the 2012 election, it's far more egregious since the last election (presumptuous, lame duck egregious) - get out the vote.

California might be compromised, but in addition to working in California we need to support viable national candidates who will run against incumbents who defile, bankrupt, and morally destroy America.

The facts are that the 2012 election was gamed by Democrat data mining and pressure on the the areas which might vote Democrat while the Republicans were left behind in the dust of organizational prowess. That's how Romney lost in what was originally a close election which, according to what I remember of the polls, favored Romney.

To be blunt, I have no love for either the Democrat or Republican parties as they have been over the last 20 years as I feel that, if unrestrained, they will bring us to the very same impoverished, enslaved status. The roads to governmental domination are polar opposites, but they lead to the same place. The third parties are a collection of impotent, nut ball loons, no help there. Distasteful as it may be, we have to work within the system - just as all those "progressives" (who ripped off the "liberal" brand"), "Latino activists", and all the rest who have used and gamed the system to subvert the system over the last 50 some years.

So, I made a deal with the devil so far as the enemy of my enemy is my friend and am working with a newly formed Tea Party group in the hope that once the goal is obtained the antagonistic opposites will level out. I made the choice of the lesser of evils.

California might be currently lost as far as the Democrat vote is concerned, but by doing what we can here and working towards national results it may have a beneficial result towards California. Nationally the hard core left is probably no more than 20% of the population, but by keeping the pressure on and playing dirty pool for several decades and hanging on to what they have gained they win. We have to do the same, gather the numbers, and dish out what they don't expect.

The national elections of 2014 and 2016 matter a lot. If we are successful California might have some just results concerning genuine fairness and genuine equality, but if not we will continue to be screwed.

Phil, thanks for asking.
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Don't drink and post.

"A nickel will get you on the subway, but garlic will get you a seat." - Old New York Yiddish Saying

"You can observe a lot just by watching." Yogi Berra

Old journeyman commenting on young apprentices - "Think about it, these are their old days"

SOMETIMES IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.

Never, ever, wear a bright colored shirt to a stand up comedy show.


Last edited by ilbegone; 10-06-2013 at 06:21 PM.
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