Republican establishment turn on Romney

[Greg in LA]

Ok, I think I'm getting it now. What you are really talking about is economic collapse in the United States and the chaos that will ensue.

Yes Economic collapse is a terrifying possibility. I for one certainly don't want to think about that, but I'm reluctantly slowly starting to prepare. I've started to stock up on canned foods, The rest of the things that I will probably need is expensive so I've been dragging my feet on paying that bill. I'm starting though.

What areas of So. Cal. do you think will be survivable?

I would think LA proper would become a powder keg.

I live in Santa Clarita, and I have a half acre of land, but no well.

Do you think life would be survivable in Santa Clarita for a couple of months?

Are you preparing for economic collapse?

Any advice for people in LA suburbs?

I've loosely been watching Greece and Spain to get an idea of what it might be like. So far it's not as apocalyptic as one might think.

Roosevelt declared a bank holiday, I think it was in 1931. All the banks were ordered closed and nobody had access to any of their money. I think the bank "holiday" lasted for three days. I think it was pretty orderly, people made due, but then again the country was a lot different back then.

[Ayatollahgondola]

Originally Posted by Greg in LA

I think it was pretty orderly, people made due, but then again the country was a lot different back then.

Yes it was. Silver money was still plentiful and gold money was still in use and available. Water in rivers and streams was still generally quite usable and accessible. And wild game was plentiful in most areas. But now there would be much more competition for that which would be readily available. Water delivery systems would remain, but the purification might break down, and paper money might become useless. The dependence issue would really shoot to the forefront of a lot of peoples minds, which could be a good thing in the long run. I don't think it would be terribly orderly this time, what with alot of resources being held by too few controlling agents. Food producers could be besieged, and range wars break out. Sidewalk commandos from inner city areas would be struggling over dominance, and police who had previously been stretched past the point of effectiveness in the past would have to consolidate in strongholds, leaving major areas wide open to resident rule.

If you want to prepare, I suggest studying the history of those who lived through the Watts riots, the King revolt, and the northridge earthquakes, and then double or triple the time frame that took to recover to an acceptible pattern of life.

[ilbegone]

What areas of So. Cal. do you think will be survivable?

Southern California south of Tejon Pass and east of the Sierras to the Mexican border and Arizona / Nevada is a desert with the population maintained for the greatest part by imported water accompanied by locally dropping water tables. Agriculture has mostly been paved over or otherwise rendered largely impractical or impossible. Everything is delivered, built or maintained with the use of the internal combustion engine and the electrical grid powers 99% of everything else.

Only about half of US the population pays taxes, I believe almost half of the population receives some sort of government services or assistance and the truly rich can afford to move their wealth, income, and business out of the country.

California has 1/3 of the national welfare burden, of which 1/4 of the California burden is in Los Angeles county. Not much separates the wealthy from the poor except for a short hike up the hill, and welfare communities sit right next to middle class suburbs throughout the state.

Most game animals were displaced or diminished decades ago when the population was a small fraction of today, socal surface water is minimal and to significant degree, polluted.

Connect the dots. It wouldn't make much more sense to hide on the Magic Mountain premises than it would in LA city hall if money becomes either scarce or worthless.

Democrat politicians buy up votes importing people and dispensing social services while Republicans have traditionally garnered support from business interests with cheap imported labor of all sorts (including H1-B) and otherwise catering to business while attracting other votes with all talk and no do concerning illegal migration. It's hard to take away services when a significant portion of the population has become used to it, at that's even when the politicians are halfway sane - which, in California, they're largely a motley collection of lunatics living in a far left, rapid transit train to nowhere parallel dimension. So, nothing meaningful will be done to fix the deficits until money can't be dispensed anymore and by then it will be too late.

The Donner party, without snow to melt for drinking water, comes to mind.


I really hope I'm wrong.

[Greg in LA]

Ilbegone, are you making any plans and preparation? If so what?

The MidWest and the North East United states has water, but if natural gas and petroleum prices spike they're vulnerable, because winters without heat can kill. I see your point though.

[Ayatollahgondola]

Originally Posted by Greg in LA

Ilbegone, are you making any plans and preparation? If so what?

The MidWest and the North East United states has water, but if natural gas and petroleum prices spike they're vulnerable, because winters without heat can kill. I see your point though.

There's always wood. We have heated with wood almost exclsively last year, and are heading to be the same this one. We're not at all alone either, as many people in the areas you mentioned use outside wood burners to boil water for heat.
And, no one ever dies when a firewood supply line ruptures

[Rim05]

My, how cheerful you guys are today.
I do not expect 2013 to be great however, I do think we can make some things better by doing what ever we can to help our country.
Right now all I hear is who is doing what to bring the entire US down. I am always trying to think of ways to make it better.

I know what people did during the depression but that will not work again. What was our population in the thirties? About maybe one third of what it is now.
If we all try to use wood, there are so many that even that will run out. Some one stronger will take from the weak. Food? How will you protect it?
Just now I was reading, if you are having your house termited, all the things to do so someone will not come in during that time and rip you off, even though the house is tented.
I can't say how I will fare but I always practice safety and save all I can. I do hope all is not as I am reading here.
I am staying where I am.

[ilbegone]

I'm not sure what I should plan to do.

Right now I'm hoping the nation survives another four years of Obama and that political California will be induced to see the see the error of their ways and convince their constituencies that things have to change. You can't keep raising taxes while wasting ever more money on boondoggles and people who haven't worked for generations. It might take a bankruptcy to get back on the right track.

It has to be realized that education is about 90% of the parent's attitude towards it and spend time with those who are becoming educated while preparing those who are too lazy to learn to either work in menial occupations or go hungry.

Those who came here for the welfare benefits need to go back to wherever they came from. In eastern Riverside county there are quite a number of welfare recipients who receive their benefits in California but LIVE IN ARIZONA. Those unemployable due to drugs and alcohol need to be subjected to random drug tests and rehabilitation or be driven out of the state if rehab fails. I've known more than a few genuinely poor people and marginally employed single mothers - not a one had late model vehicles in the driveway, new furniture, or the latest in home entertainment electronics - there are more than an insignificant few who practice welfare fraud while having some sort of under the table income. For decades there have been women who time their pregnancies (any random sperm donor will do) according to how it will affect their continuing eligibility for welfare. Those abuses need to end.

The politicians have to realize there is only so much blood to be squeezed out of the stone. "Making minority neighborhoods green" (installing roof top solar in the ghetto on the taxpayer dime) or building bullet trains to nowhere can't be done with our present financial condition, and maybe not even in good times.

Hard core gang bangers and other criminals have to be effectively dealt with, driven out of the state if necesary. No kid trying to get an education needs to be presented with the choice of either getting beat up all the time or joining a gang for protection. Any prisoner who murders another prisoner in jail needs to be taken out back and capped - get rid of the problem. Jails and lengthy sentences aren't going to solve criminality nor the social and monetary costs which comes with crime.

And, those who came here illegally as adults need to go or be sent back to wherever they came from while those who were brought here illegally as children do not belong to their parent's country and need to be afforded permanent legal status with all rights just short of citizenship, their children to be citizens under the 14th amendment. There is not room on the bus for everyone who wants to come here whether it's illegally or on H1B visas. Employers need to be "educated" out of hiring illegals. If it weren't for employers beating down wages with illegal hiring and H1B entrants there would be little illegal migration. And no more SBA loans to newcomers while affording native citizens little to nothing.

If the problems our state and nation are not effectively met, I fear the meltdown will occur.

[Ayatollahgondola]

Originally Posted by Rim05

My, how cheerful you guys are today.

We're not discussing a Bob Hope comedy re-run here RIM. Some subjects require the somber attitude. I; for one, have felt the end of this government's civil whip. That said, I've been one to encourage people to stand and fight, which it sounds like GreginLA is doing, but just picking a proper base of operations right here in California

[Greg in LA]

I'm not leaving, I just bought a house (I have no mortgage) and I love it. I can't pull my kids out of school either, it would be bad for them. Plus where would I go? What would I do?
I Moved to California from Chicago, and I'm not going back to Illinois, Property taxes in Illinois are sky high, and most people I know are not working.

For me the entertainment industry is really tanking, Lots of people including myself are out of work,which is really strange for December.

California is really going to get difficult, and if it suffers we're probably going to suffer with it. What scares me is as California's tax revenues drop Sacramento keeps coming after us for more money, and they keep grabbing power as more and more people get on some form of aid. I feel trapped as this happens.

I know the state and National debts will continue, it's unstoppable until things finally collapse. We'll all just have to live through this instability as the State and National debts skyrocket, and as the government grabs more and more to protect it's self, and then have to survive the aftermath of the collapse as well.

We've already been living through 4 years of recession and I don't see any end to it.

I feel trapped as this accident unfolds, I want to escape it, but escape to where? North Dakota or Montana?

[Ayatollahgondola]

Originally Posted by Greg in LA

I'm not leaving, I just bought a house (I have no mortgage) and I love it. I can't pull my kids out of school either, it would be bad for them. Plus where would I go? What would I do?
I Moved to California from Chicago, and I'm not going back to Illinois, Property taxes in Illinois are sky high, and most people I know are not working.

For me the entertainment industry is really tanking, Lots of people including myself are out of work,which is really strange for December.

California is really going to get difficult, and if it suffers we're probably going to suffer with it. What scares me is as California's tax revenues drop Sacramento keeps coming after us for more money, and they keep grabbing power as more and more people get on some form of aid. I feel trapped as this happens.

I know the state and National debts will continue, it's unstoppable until things finally collapse. We'll all just have to live through this instability as the State and National debts skyrocket, and as the government grabs more and more to protect it's self, and then have to survive the aftermath of the collapse as well.

We've already been living through 4 years of recession and I don't see any end to it.

I feel trapped as this accident unfolds, I want to escape it, but escape to where? North Dakota or Montana?

The Dakotas are miserably cold, and Montana is only slightly better. There's no gettin' around a fight for your living standard here in the US. But you can start to learn how best to live in the area you are. Your goals will be set at a level of livability as opposed to a raging success. Just plan for 6 months of living off the grid, and keep that gomonths ahead of you at all times. You'll get better at it as you go, and soon you won't notice it. Some of the fear will subside then.
when you say "entertainment industry" what is that?