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  #11  
Old 05-17-2011, 09:42 PM
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Ayatollahgondola Ayatollahgondola is offline
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Originally Posted by Greg in LA View Post
Hi Twoller,
I would like to address the information that made you write this statement,

"The same people that undermine Israel's national security by imposing insecure borders on it undermine our national security by imposing insecure borders on us."

Good question Twoller, who is imposing insecure borders on America?

Here is a list of the Jews in the US Senate of the 111th congress:
Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.),Benjamin Cardin (D-Md.),Russ Feingold (D-Wisc., Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.), Al Franken (D-Minn.),Herb Kohl (D-Wisc.)
Frank Lautenberg (D-N.J.) ,Joseph Lieberman (I-Conn.),Carl Levin (D-Mich.)Bernard Sanders (I-Vt.), Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) Arlen Specter (D-Pa.)
Ron Wyden (D-Ore.)

What do these Senators have in common besides being Jews? They are all terrible on border and immigration policies, such as securing the American border, opposing amnesty and reducing immigration. In fact Numbers USA gives 10 of our 13 Jewish Senators its lowest grade possible... an F to an F-. California Senators Boxer and Feinstein Get a D and Wyden also gets a D.

Brother Twoller I am sure you know how bad Boxer and Feinstein is on Illegal immigration, just think what it takes to earn an F and an F-!

Please also take a look at this list of the Jews in the 111 US
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES:

Gary Ackerman (D-N.Y.),John Adler (D-N.J.), Shelley Berkley (D-Nev.), Howard Berman (D-Calif.), Eric Cantor (R-Va.), Stephen Cohen (D-Tenn.), Susan Davis (D-Calif.), Ted Deutsch (D-Fla.), Eliot Engel (D-N.Y.), Bob Filner (D-Calif.), Barney Frank (D-Mass.), Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.), Alan Grayson (D-Fla.), Jane Harman (D-Calif.), Paul Hodes (D-N.H.), Steve Israel (D-N.Y.), Steve Kagen (D-Wisc.), Ron Klein (D-Fla.), Sander Levin (D-Mich.), Nita Lowey (D-N.Y.), Jerrold Nadler (D-N.Y.),Jared Polis (D-Colo.), Steve Rothman (D-N.J.), Jan Schakowsky (D-Ill.), Allyson Schwartz (D-Pa.), Adam Schiff (D-Calif.), Brad Sherman (D-Calif.), Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-Fla.), Henry Waxman (D-Calif.) Anthony Weiner (D-N.Y.), John Yarmuth (D-Ky.)

Of the 31 Jews in our 111th Congress, Numbers USA gives one congressmen Eric Cantor the highest grade of all Jewish Congress men a B+. there are two that get a C-
14 that get a D or D-
14 that get a F or F- on the issue of immigration and Amnesty for illegal aliens.

One other thing I noticed is that of the 44 Jews in the US Senate and House of Representatives all of them are Liberal Democrates except for Congressmen Cantor who is the lone Jewish Republican.

Brother Twoller the facts paint a very dark picture of the Jews in our Congress in regards to how they want to secure the American border, and protect American sovereignty.

After gathering this information my only question is why are the Jews so unanimous in their efforts to undermine American sovereignty and our borders?
As statistics go, how about a comparison to the christian reps who vote for open borders. I mean if it's related to religion, we should at least have a comparison, else these numbers are worthless.
I don't hold a bias towards or against Christians, but figured they were the next largest group to use as a measuring stick
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  #12  
Old 05-17-2011, 11:08 PM
Greg in LA Greg in LA is offline
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Ayatollah,
Yes one could do a break down of how Senators and Congressmen vote on border and immigration issues based on their religion or race.
I am definatly not saying that Christians are not also on the wrong side of the immigration issue, look at Bush, Clinton, Kennedy, McCain, Grahamnesty...

My response was to Twoller who made the incorrect assertion that the enemies of Israeli sovereignty and a secure Israeli border are also enemies of American Sovereignty and our border.

I just showed him that based on an unbiased tally of voting records, Jews in Congress are near unanamous in their efforts to weaken our border security, and our sovereignty through wreckless legal and illegal immigration. Over 90% of the Jews in congress get a Numbers USA failing Grade.

The fact that Jews in congress are so glaringly on the wrong side of the immigration issue is obvious to me.

One could say that the uniformity of the voting record of the Jews in congress is just a coincident and not connected, but I think that would be naive.


People with dual loyalties usually don't see the need for strong American sovereignty. Mexican/ Hispanic Americans likewise are a reliable vote against strong border security and for amnesty. So are some other ethnic groups. I guess I am generally suspicious of all dual loyalties. One could also say that ethinc and tribal loyalties cloud everyones motives. That is why I make my loyalties clear and upfront... I have choosen my side and that is American and Christian.
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  #13  
Old 05-18-2011, 02:45 AM
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ilbegone ilbegone is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg in LA View Post
Hi Twoller,


Here is a list of the Jews in the US Senate of the 111th congress:
Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.),Benjamin Cardin (D-Md.),Russ Feingold (D-Wisc., Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.), Al Franken (D-Minn.),Herb Kohl (D-Wisc.)
Frank Lautenberg (D-N.J.) ,Joseph Lieberman (I-Conn.),Carl Levin (D-Mich.)Bernard Sanders (I-Vt.), Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) Arlen Specter (D-Pa.)
Ron Wyden (D-Ore.)


Brother Twoller I am sure you know how bad Boxer and Feinstein is on Illegal immigration, just think what it takes to earn an F and an F-!

Please also take a look at this list of the Jews in the 111 US
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES:

Gary Ackerman (D-N.Y.),John Adler (D-N.J.), Shelley Berkley (D-Nev.), Howard Berman (D-Calif.), Eric Cantor (R-Va.), Stephen Cohen (D-Tenn.), Susan Davis (D-Calif.), Ted Deutsch (D-Fla.), Eliot Engel (D-N.Y.), Bob Filner (D-Calif.), Barney Frank (D-Mass.), Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.), Alan Grayson (D-Fla.), Jane Harman (D-Calif.), Paul Hodes (D-N.H.), Steve Israel (D-N.Y.), Steve Kagen (D-Wisc.), Ron Klein (D-Fla.), Sander Levin (D-Mich.), Nita Lowey (D-N.Y.), Jerrold Nadler (D-N.Y.),Jared Polis (D-Colo.), Steve Rothman (D-N.J.), Jan Schakowsky (D-Ill.), Allyson Schwartz (D-Pa.), Adam Schiff (D-Calif.), Brad Sherman (D-Calif.), Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-Fla.), Henry Waxman (D-Calif.) Anthony Weiner (D-N.Y.), John Yarmuth (D-Ky.)
At last, some names. None of that all too common generalized ranting about "Jews", throwing everyone into the same pot.

Here are the further questions:

How typical or representative are these people of Jews in America who are non practicing in the faith, and how typical are they of those who are hard core Orthodox practitioners in America? Would they be ultra Orthodox on Friday night and Saturday - maybe even hiring a maid to flip light switches for them on Sabbath, then eat pulled pork sandwiches on Sunday? Or is their main connection with "Jewishness" a vague recollection of singing "Hava Nagila" in the sixth grade fifty years or more ago? Are they married to non Jews?

What are their voting records concerning American aid of any and all kinds to Israel, and would they be accepted in Israel as "real" Jews? Or would their asses be kissed as long as the gifts are received, then rejected as American "Manischevitz Jews" and given the bum's rush as soon as the party is over?

If they had nothing to give but a civilian, practicing American Orthodox presence and admiration for Israel, would that be enough to be accepted as worthy of recognition as a "real Jew" in Israel?

What is the difference between "Orthodox" in America and "Orthodox" in Israel? Would there be a culture gap between American Jews and Israeli Jews?

Are those Jewish legislators like self appointed "Latino" activists in office who presume to speak for a very broadly defined group of people, many of whom may not agree with them?

Does any of them babble endlessly about Israel and Israelis like racist ethnic studies professors babble about "Latinos"?

Or do they tend to be far left, indoctrinated in college wackos who just happen to have Jewish last names, not much different than any other group of out of touch, condescending,"educated" far left political morons?
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Last edited by ilbegone; 05-18-2011 at 03:03 AM.
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  #14  
Old 05-18-2011, 05:19 AM
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Ayatollahgondola Ayatollahgondola is offline
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Originally Posted by Greg in LA View Post
Ayatollah,
Yes one could do a break down of how Senators and Congressmen vote on border and immigration issues based on their religion or race.
I am definatly not saying that Christians are not also on the wrong side of the immigration issue, look at Bush, Clinton, Kennedy, McCain, Grahamnesty...

My response was to Twoller who made the incorrect assertion that the enemies of Israeli sovereignty and a secure Israeli border are also enemies of American Sovereignty and our border.

I just showed him that based on an unbiased tally of voting records, Jews in Congress are near unanamous in their efforts to weaken our border security, and our sovereignty through wreckless legal and illegal immigration. Over 90% of the Jews in congress get a Numbers USA failing Grade.

The fact that Jews in congress are so glaringly on the wrong side of the immigration issue is obvious to me.

One could say that the uniformity of the voting record of the Jews in congress is just a coincident and not connected, but I think that would be naive.


People with dual loyalties usually don't see the need for strong American sovereignty. Mexican/ Hispanic Americans likewise are a reliable vote against strong border security and for amnesty. So are some other ethnic groups. I guess I am generally suspicious of all dual loyalties. One could also say that ethinc and tribal loyalties cloud everyones motives. That is why I make my loyalties clear and upfront... I have choosen my side and that is American and Christian.
The loyalty issue is key here, because I doubt that many or even most of those representatives you mentioned are even loyal to the cloth as well. They may call themselves jewish, and practice just enough judasim to con the general public, but I doubt they could pass any real scrutiny. Many religions have their posers. I might point out one of our previous management who wears her christianity like a uniform. But irrefutable evidence exists that she habitually violates many of christianity's basic tenets (read.. commandments). There are lots of posers who are associated with the practice of various religions who in reality are little more than hyenas wearing sheepskins. Here's where statistics, and I mean unbiased ones, really matter. First you have to set the criteria for the category. Are the Feinstein's, et al religious jews or just sheepskin jews? I'd bet you'd find the latter true. You might more consider that there is a cross section politicians who may have come from jewish roots, but they are likely new-jews that forsake any of the actual religious practices that interfere with the practice of making money and seeking power. If you want to recast the categories, I might be in agreement with you on some of your assertions. But I sincerely doubt you can come up with unbiased statistics that would prove jews in general want to destroy American sovereignty, unless you use polling practices similar to the ones the media does when they want to show support for amnesty.
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  #15  
Old 05-18-2011, 09:08 PM
Greg in LA Greg in LA is offline
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Ayatollah and Ilbegone, Those are great question about whether our Senate and Congressional members that identify themselves as Jews are religiously observant Jews or are non observant. I do not know the answear to that question.

You should also remember that Judiasm is not just a religion, More importantly Jews consider themselves to also be a nationality, or even a race of people. Whether a Jew is a devout beliver in Judiasm or an Athiest they are still Jews, and members of the Jewish tribe or nation.

The Jewish nationality is also transnational. Whether a Jew is a national of the United States, Russia, Israel, Great Britian, or Argentina it doesn't matter in regards to their identity, they are still members of the Jewish nation.

Jews are not just a religion they are also a race of people.

Chritianity on the other hand is a religion only. Most Mexicans, Greeks, Canadians, Lebanese, and Phillipinos are Christians, but they do not consider themselve part of the same nation or tribe.

This is why Jews in all nations have dual loyalties to the country that they live in and to their own people the Jews.

For example: Rahm Emanuel is a Jew. he was a former Clinton aid, Chicago Congressmen, chief of staff to Barack Obama and is now the new mayor of Chicago. Rahm Emanuel is also an American citizen. In 1991 Rahm Emanuel moved to Israel to join the the Israeli army, Even though he is American. (and in high levels in politics).
One might ask how can Rahm Emanuel as an American citizen just go and join a foreign country's army and then just come back and join American political life? Isn't that a conflict of interest?

Yes it is a conflict of interest, but it is a great example of how Jews have dual loyalties to their people the Jews and to the Country that they live in.
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  #16  
Old 05-18-2011, 09:14 PM
Greg in LA Greg in LA is offline
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Here is a great new political Ad. from a Jewish politician running for Congress in the United States. It's funny in a dark sort of way. He is trying to get Jews and "Minorities" to unite.

Unite against who?

http://www.alternativeright.com/main...rities-united/

Let me know what you think.

Last edited by Greg in LA; 05-18-2011 at 09:21 PM.
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  #17  
Old 05-18-2011, 10:07 PM
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Ayatollahgondola Ayatollahgondola is offline
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Originally Posted by Greg in LA View Post
Ayatollah and Ilbegone, Those are great question about whether our Senate and Congressional members that identify themselves as Jews are religiously observant Jews or are non observant. I do not know the answear to that question.

You should also remember that Judiasm is not just a religion, More importantly Jews consider themselves to also be a nationality, or even a race of people. Whether a Jew is a devout beliver in Judiasm or an Athiest they are still Jews, and members of the Jewish tribe or nation.

The Jewish nationality is also transnational. Whether a Jew is a national of the United States, Russia, Israel, Great Britian, or Argentina it doesn't matter in regards to their identity, they are still members of the Jewish nation.

Jews are not just a religion they are also a race of people.

Chritianity on the other hand is a religion only. Most Mexicans, Greeks, Canadians, Lebanese, and Phillipinos are Christians, but they do not consider themselve part of the same nation or tribe.

This is why Jews in all nations have dual loyalties to the country that they live in and to their own people the Jews.

For example: Rahm Emanuel is a Jew. he was a former Clinton aid, Chicago Congressmen, chief of staff to Barack Obama and is now the new mayor of Chicago. Rahm Emanuel is also an American citizen. In 1991 Rahm Emanuel moved to Israel to join the the Israeli army, Even though he is American. (and in high levels in politics).
One might ask how can Rahm Emanuel as an American citizen just go and join a foreign country's army and then just come back and join American political life? Isn't that a conflict of interest?

Yes it is a conflict of interest, but it is a great example of how Jews have dual loyalties to their people the Jews and to the Country that they live in.
People like Emanuel are not the rule; they are the exception. I don't doubt that many jews would claim israel as their own, but you have to remember that that's also the sacred ground of their religion. I'll give you that many jews might even have a loyalty to israel to a degree, mainly because they went without a country for quite some time, and that might drive anyone to think they might not have a country in the US if push came to shove. There's a lot of animosity towards jews in the US even today, and with that as your constant companion, I could see why someone might keep a second home so-to-speak. In any case, that doesn't necessarily mean that they all want to dominate the world, or break down US borders.
As far as jews being a race, I say poppycock. Jewish is a religion, israel is a nation, and race is fairly mixed within the jewish faithful. Jews may consider themselves a nationality because they once again did not have country that wanted to claim them for a long time. Remember that those landing at plymouth rock were also fleeing religious persecution

Our philosophy here is that religion is a preference we don't deny. One thing that all of us share here, regardless of race or creed, is that we all feel strongly about fighting corruption, keeping our nation protected the way it was chartered, and retaining a sense of cultural flavor that identifies with our history, but allowing for a slight influence from immigration and general philosophical growth. It's hard to find people who will oppose power mongers who would cheat, manipulate, and lie their way into control, if not outright force the issue. If we start limiting our choices of comrades...if you will, by excluding jews or whatever other religion, we're going to have a longer and more costly battle in terms of our own betheren. If we actually send out vibes that we don't trust all jews, not only will they not help us, but they may join the other side out of fear or necessity. We believe that there are jews that love America, and will defend it. I personally feel that the odds are quite well against the concept that all jews are more loyal to israel than any other nation, or that all of them have it in for a sovereign America
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Old 05-19-2011, 09:52 AM
Twoller Twoller is offline
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The important thing to remember about Judaism and the Jewish people is that never in ancient history of Jews and Judaism have Jews ever sought to impose their beliefs on anybody else. And nowhere in the scripture or teachings of Judaism is it ever suggested that anyone else besides Jews was obligated to the beliefs of Judaism and that Jews were in no way obligated to advance the understanding or adoption of Jewish belief to anyone else. And being a Jew is a matter of family. According to Jewish belief, only the descendents of Jews are the Jews of Jewish belief. Others may convert to Jewish belief, but this fundamental belief about who is a Jew is one of the beliefs that rationally must be included in that conversion.

As a matter of religion or scripture or teachings, nobody is under threat of submission to Jews or Jewish believers. Contrast this with Islam or Catholicism which both have a rich history of not only violently subjegating other peoples to their beliefs, but violently policing their own believers for lapses or discretions, imagined or otherwise. And of course they reserve their most frenzied violence against Jews themselves. This is especially ironic considering that both these religions claim the God of Israel as their own. They claim that Jews are evil aggressors against these new claimed beliefs about their God. They advance the weirdest and most odious of lies against them.

If you are a citizen of these United States of America, then you disavow loyalty to any other country. But the US cannot dictate the citizenship policy of other countries. If they want to allow citizenship for other people who claim citizenship in some other country, then our only response can be to remind our citizens their obligation if they are to be citizens at all. When we mint new citizens, they take an oath to disavow loyalty anywhere else. We are serious about this oath and subject our citizens to laws governing these loyalties. That is enough, I think until somebody can think of a better way of handling this.
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Old 05-19-2011, 05:55 PM
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Obama Sides With Palestinians — Endorses 1967 Border Demands

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/obam...order-demands/
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Old 05-19-2011, 06:40 PM
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ilbegone ilbegone is offline
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The important thing to remember about Judaism and the Jewish people is that never in ancient history of Jews and Judaism have Jews ever sought to impose their beliefs on anybody else. And nowhere in the scripture or teachings of Judaism is it ever suggested that anyone else besides Jews was obligated to the beliefs of Judaism and that Jews were in no way obligated to advance the understanding or adoption of Jewish belief to anyone else. And being a Jew is a matter of family. According to Jewish belief, only the descendents of Jews are the Jews of Jewish belief. Others may convert to Jewish belief, but this fundamental belief about who is a Jew is one of the beliefs that rationally must be included in that conversion.

As a matter of religion or scripture or teachings, nobody is under threat of submission to Jews or Jewish believers. Contrast this with Islam or Catholicism which both have a rich history of not only violently subjegating other peoples to their beliefs, but violently policing their own believers for lapses or discretions, imagined or otherwise. And of course they reserve their most frenzied violence against Jews themselves. This is especially ironic considering that both these religions claim the God of Israel as their own. They claim that Jews are evil aggressors against these new claimed beliefs about their God. They advance the weirdest and most odious of lies against them.

If you are a citizen of these United States of America, then you disavow loyalty to any other country. But the US cannot dictate the citizenship policy of other countries. If they want to allow citizenship for other people who claim citizenship in some other country, then our only response can be to remind our citizens their obligation if they are to be citizens at all. When we mint new citizens, they take an oath to disavow loyalty anywhere else. We are serious about this oath and subject our citizens to laws governing these loyalties. That is enough, I think until somebody can think of a better way of handling this.
I'm tired, I'll make it short.

Keeping separate the ancient from the modern, you haven't read much of the Old Testament, have you. Lots of massacring of Canaanites, and all the rest - including execution by stoning and much of what is currently claimed of Islam.

As I've stated before, genetically Palestinians and Israelis are very closely related, and the current hostilities are essentially a family fight over the inheritance which is thousands of years old. Way before our time, and the religious issues are merely a sideshow in my view.

You are correct that historically Jews haven't pushed their beliefs on others, but Pre AD 70 they weren't exactly welcoming of those outside of their closed fold either.
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