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Immigration Pushed To The Forefront Again.... Thanks! To Everyone Who Has Propelled This Issue To Its' Rightful Position. Years Of Hard Work Are Paying Off.....Keep Up The Good Work!......
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  #11  
Old 01-05-2011, 11:43 AM
PochoPatriot PochoPatriot is offline
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Ultimately the border security movement in Southern California is dead. It is dead because there are three people who think they are the movement. They are in no particular order: Nightingale, Coe & Gilchrist. Unless you are a part of one of the three you are a no body, and you will not get one once of support. Case in point, the American Apparel protest Jean and I tried field. No attendance (including myself, but that was because of an emergency appendectomy). No support, even on the old SOS. Why? Because I was involved. In other words, it was a case of ego trumping the cause. The principle of stopping illegal immigration has always been my drive in getting involved in this movement. Illegal immigration has to be the sole focus.

In my mind there are three major players, or persons with substantial influence in the southern California border security movement, Nightingale, Coe & Gilchrist. Cross any one of the three and you are dead in the water. They will cut off your numerical support. They will cut off all lines of communication. They will actively bad-mouth you to others. The reason for this is simple: They think they are the voice for border security in southern California. I saw this when Sam organized his vigil for Jamel Shaw. Sam got no support from Nightingale and Coe.

The problem with those three is that they hold way too much influence, and can define their enemies in terms that place them in the best light possible to their mindless followers. I have discovered that with these three in particular, it is all about ego and email lists. Personally, I have no email list. I had and have no agenda, other than wanting to stop the illegal invasion that is slowing but surely killing our country and culture.

Further, I think that so many of use that were in the front lines for so long are just tired of fighting and not seeing any return for our fight. Or worse yet, we have been wounded by the people that we thought were in the fight with us. I believe that the second proposition is more prevalent than the second. I for one lost a lot of the energy I had when I first joined this movement after the fall out I had with the old SOS management.

While Robin and Ray are doing a great job out in the IE, the fact remains that Los Angeles is the place were an impact must be made. Events in Los Angeles will attract media attention because it is in Los Angeles as opposed to the IE. What is needed is something that will put border security back on the media's radar. We need something radical and new. We can no longer have the same old protests and counter-protests were each side screams at each other. The media has seen this, and it won't excite them. What did excite them? The last time I recall the media covering anything we did was after Ted Hayes and the other four of us crossed the LAPD line at Leimert Park. Now I could be wrong about this, but I don't recall media at the Simi Valley church protest, or the Westwood Federal building Ron Paul lovefest.

So what is that radical and new protest? I really have no idea. This is where we need people with fresh ideas, at best, or at least, a meeting of the minds. Some of the best ideas I heard were at lunches after events, but we never had the chance to implement them.

As for me, I would love to get a jump start that would re-energize my passion for border security. I just don't see a reason to get energized based on the turnouts and the general passion of people. Then again I could be all wrong, and everything I have just written is just another steaming pile of bovine excrement.
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  #12  
Old 01-05-2011, 12:29 PM
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Ayatollahgondola Ayatollahgondola is offline
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I'm going to disagree with you on a few things.

Number 1, alot of this is old news, and we are dealing with today. The past events you wrote about were far enough back not to be effecting our present as much as you might believe.

#2, Gilchrist and Nightingale are no longer 2 of the three players here in California. Nightingale gave it up for more personalized fame, which she didn't succeed in, and I cannot remember when the last time was that I saw Jim or MMP in the news related to anything in Los Angeles.

And lastly, the movement is still alive, with some of the same people, but sans the energy that drove us onto the streets before. Nightingale may have crippled us at the time, but there's little excuse for that now. People are basically come up short where it concerns long term projects. This is why you see so many exercise machines that look like they're new, out in the front yards during garage sales. Likewise, many sailboats are sitting in garages with barely more than their keels laid.
But we are a long term organization. We think long, act long, and stick with things for long terms. So what if the enthusiasm isn't gushing right now. We'll be here when it does, and in the meantime we'll be here keeping the seats warm and the ship rowing forward.
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  #13  
Old 01-05-2011, 09:14 PM
DerailAmnesty.com DerailAmnesty.com is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PochoPatriot View Post
Ultimately the border security movement in Southern California is dead. It is dead because there are three people who think they are the movement. They are in no particular order: Nightingale, Coe & Gilchrist. Unless you are a part of one of the three you are a no body, and you will not get one once of support. Case in point, the American Apparel protest Jean and I tried field. No attendance (including myself, but that was because of an emergency appendectomy). No support, even on the old SOS. Why? Because I was involved. In other words, it was a case of ego trumping the cause. The principle of stopping illegal immigration has always been my drive in getting involved in this movement. Illegal immigration has to be the sole focus.

In my mind there are three major players, or persons with substantial influence in the southern California border security movement, Nightingale, Coe & Gilchrist. Cross any one of the three and you are dead in the water. They will cut off your numerical support. They will cut off all lines of communication. They will actively bad-mouth you to others. The reason for this is simple: They think they are the voice for border security in southern California. I saw this when Sam organized his vigil for Jamel Shaw. Sam got no support from Nightingale and Coe.

Wow, interesting analysis. Dude, I almost entirely disagree with you.

Firstly, what was the last thing you can recall Chelene or Gilchrist organizing in SoCal that was immigration centered?

Secondly, what was the last immigration protest you can recall Barb spearheading that didn't involve multiple people who think of Chelene as pond scum?

Thirdly, in all seriousness, would you want any of their reputations? And you can add Schwilk's to that list. And I don't mean "reputations" among people who detest them or have axes to grind, or reputations with sycophants. I mean to the larger public.

Fourthly, the events we had in the first quarter of '10 disprove most of what you said. Those Santa Clarita events rocked. Jean and Frank dug up passionate folks we'd never seen before - a good number of them.

Don't kid yourself. SOS (This SOS, not the old one) can stage events and produce bodies. The evidence of this has been produced on multiple occasions. We haven't because events haven't been scheduled. We have an organizing committee that no longer organizes. Period.

Chelene and her merry band of conspiracy theorists have about as much impact on what we choose to do, as they did on the gubernatorial election. The Shaws, Ted, Tea Partiers, California Crusaders, etc. People will show ...
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  #14  
Old 01-05-2011, 10:01 PM
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Ayatollahgondola Ayatollahgondola is offline
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The event committee is still open for people who want to join it. It's always been open.

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The Shaws, Ted, Tea Partiers, California Crusaders, etc. People will show ...
Maybe. It's really hard to pull everyone together at once. One of the things pocho mentioned is somewhat true. There needs to be a catalyst...something new or exciting...to draw everyone together for an event. That opportunity hasn't arisen yet. And when it isn't present, you have to work ten times harder at getting butts in seats.
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  #15  
Old 01-05-2011, 10:39 PM
Rim05 Rim05 is offline
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Quote:
It's really hard to pull everyone together at once. One of the things pocho mentioned is somewhat true. There needs to be a catalyst...something new or exciting...to draw everyone together for an event. That opportunity hasn't arisen yet. And when it isn't present, you have to work ten times harder at getting butts in seats.
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If all the things being tried by LaRaza the days does not inspire all of us to do something, I don't know what it will take. You are seeing all those who were counting on the Dream Act passing digging up the illegals who want a college education so they can then run for public office.
The Fresno student body president, Pedro Hernandez, is a good example.
Another one is Tony Mendoza, congress person from some place here in the LA area. I heard him on TV today saying he is going to introduce a motion to have a ballot measure to have a vote to give all illegals who have been here for 5 years a path to citizen ship. I guess he is legal, but he used his US education to be able to get elected and now he is all for the Illegal Invaders.
I think that is the plan all this desire for education is to help them control the political scene as well as the schools from K to College.
In the mean time we wonder 'if' we can get people to come together for an event. We cannot worry what the old SOS is doing or has done. We make our own music.
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  #16  
Old 01-05-2011, 10:52 PM
DerailAmnesty.com DerailAmnesty.com is offline
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If all the things being tried by LaRaza the days does not inspire all of us to do something, I don't know what it will take.
I wholeheartedly agree. All manner of fireworks and happenings went off last year, and we sat it out. Gutierrez, Fiorina/Boxer, DREAM Act, exhibitions of civil disobedience, SB1070 ... all of it.

Whether the event committee is open membership or closed is irrelevant. We have one, it has personnel, but nothing gets produced anymore.

That's just reality.
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  #17  
Old 01-06-2011, 05:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DerailAmnesty.com View Post
I wholeheartedly agree. All manner of fireworks and happenings went off last year, and we sat it out. Gutierrez, Fiorina/Boxer, DREAM Act, exhibitions of civil disobedience, SB1070 ... all of it.

Whether the event committee is open membership or closed is irrelevant. We have one, it has personnel, but nothing gets produced anymore.

That's just reality.
It is not irrelevant whether the event committee is open or closed. We have stated from the outset that we invite and welcome participation, and we prove our intent by keeping the door, and opportunity, open to those who wish to be active. If the committee was closed, that would be a relevant factor in why there wasn't any events. However, there have been events. July, August, september, and October, Save Our State held events. It is not unconscionable that we didn't hold events in November and December. The election, the holidays, and the weather are solid factors that planners don't want to compete with. Now here it is January, and we'll be having three more events this month.
We'd like to see more, however, as stated here already, we are a non-profit organization with limited resources at present; we do what we can, when we can, and where we can.
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  #18  
Old 01-06-2011, 08:05 AM
Rim05 Rim05 is offline
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Quote:
Whether the event committee is open membership or closed is irrelevant. We have one, it has personnel, but nothing gets produced anymore.

That's just reality.
I think it is very discouraging to those who organize and post all the details and then no one is interested. Just about all the time I would try and let it be known if I could attend but now of course, I am retired.

I see a number of new members in the last month or so, I do hope this will encourage others to step up for some action, believe me, we need you.
Never forget this in not entertainment, this is for the very survival of our country.
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  #19  
Old 01-06-2011, 08:42 AM
Patriotic Army Mom Patriotic Army Mom is offline
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I've been to all that was on my time schedule this past year, and missed others. There are so many new faces, it's a boost to all of those who've been out in the trenches. Yes, we need to get out there and make our self visible. Others need to see this, so that they know they are not alone. Why even SZ has moved up to actual printed signs. Personally I love his signs made on old card board boxes. We still have the fight and the passion, and many of us are tired, but must go on. I'm old, but I'm bold! God Bless America and the fight must continue. Many have gone to the cities and done the fight in the government offices, this has been effective. Let's go and do our thing, it is not dead.
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  #20  
Old 01-06-2011, 12:07 PM
PochoPatriot PochoPatriot is offline
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I am glad that I am wrong. Maybe being out of the loop for as long as I have been has jaded my point of view. Perhaps getting older has caused me to forget a lot of the events from the beginning of 2010. SB1070 was in deed a the type of catalyst that was needed in order to re-energize this movement.
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