Save Our State  

Go Back   Save Our State > General Forum (non official Save Our State business) > General Discussion

General Discussion Topics of a general nature not relative to any other specific section here

WELCOME BACK!.............NEW EFFORTS AHEAD..........CHECK BACK SOON.........UPDATE YOUR EMAIL FOR NEW NOTIFICATIONS.........
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-28-2012, 02:00 PM
ilbegone's Avatar
ilbegone ilbegone is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,068
Default Tension between U.S.-born Latinos, immigrants stems from differences in language, val

No lectures, just food for thought.





[B]Tension between U.S.-born Latinos, immigrants stems from differences in language, values and education


July 24, 2005
Brady McCombs

John Natividad, Eric Morales and Javier Villa share one trait that leads many to believe they are a singular unit, alike in values, culture and language: They have brown skin.

Indeed, each is part of the Latino population that accounts for 29.6 percent of Weld County and one in seven people in the U.S., according to 2004 U.S. Census figures. Within this growing community in Weld, however, a complicated, tension-filled relationship plays out between newer immigrants and those who have lived here for generations.

In many ways, all Latinos share similar heritage and cultures. In other ways, differences in values, beliefs, language, education and jobs place a strain on relationships. The inability of some in the Anglo culture to differentiate between Latinos creates and perpetuates that tension, Natividad said.

"You can't separate us in the Anglo eyes," said Natividad, a 57-year-old third-generation American born and raised in Weld. "We are all brown, and we are all from Mexico."

The tension within the Latino community exists at schools, workplaces and in public.

Javier, a 17-year-old native of Ciudad Juarez, Mexico, who arrived three years ago, said that at Northridge High School he has endured more prejudice from fellow Latinos who speak English than from any Anglo.

"They think they are better than us, even though their parents are Mexicans," Javier said. "They don't want to talk Spanish, all English."

Natividad, meanwhile, has conflicting emotions about new immigrants, some of whom come without proper documentation.

On one hand, he feels a sense of camaraderie and a shared culture. Natividad said seeing new immigrants working the field reminds him of his grandfather, who came to the U.S. in the 1930s and worked in the fields topping beets. One night recently, he and his wife, Jessica, met a Guatemalan man who didn't speak English at the laundry mat and gave him a ride to Rocky Mountain Service, Employment, Redevelopment to get help with housing and jobs.

Some of the immigrants' actions bother the U.S. citizens.

"Having grown up here, we obey the laws," Natividad said. "And in Mexico, there are virtually no laws. You pretty much do what you want. They don't understand the rules here."

Eric Morales, 24, of Evans falls somewhere in between.

As a child, he visited his mother's family every year in Chihuahua, Mexico. He said he feels proud of his Mexican heritage. He's fond of the phrase "Viva Mexico" and feels a closeness with Mexican co-workers at the Wal-Mart Distribution Center where he works.

However, he is sometimes bothered when new immigrants laugh or make fun of him when he doesn't say a Spanish word perfectly or can't understand something.

As for illegal immigration, Morales said he doesn't fault immigrants who want the opportunity for a better life. He has seen how his family has benefited from coming to the U.S., and he understands the allure.

"If the USA wasn't such a good place to be," Morales said, "I don't think we would have such a big problem with illegal immigration."

Recently though, he has re-evaluated the cost of illegal immigration after he became a victim of identify theft. Investigators told Morales an illegal immigrant was using his Social Security number and even took out a credit card in his name. It's made him realize the impact illegal immigrants can have on others, he said.

Javier and his family -- mom, dad and two brothers -- came across the El Paso, Texas, border aboard a bus in 2001 without proper documentation. On this day, no one asked to see documentation, and they crossed the border and went north to Greeley, where they've been since.

Javier said he and his family live "tranquilo," or relaxed, in a rental house in downtown Greeley. They have access to better-paying jobs, quality education and feel safer than they did in Ciudad Juarez, a city where gangs and drug lords run the streets and where 400 women have been murdered in the past decade.

Javier and his 15-year-old brother attend Northridge, and their 6-year-old brother goes to Billie Martinez Elementary School. They speak Spanish in their house, but Javier and his brothers have learned English quickly. He said he likes his work in the fields and, so far, enjoys living in Greeley. Nonetheless, he sees himself back in Mexico within five years.

The Natividads, meanwhile, envision themselves only in their spacious west Greeley home. They were both born near Platteville and attended Valley High School, and their families remain here. John Natividad served in the U.S. Army in Vietnam in 1968.

Mexico for them is a vacation destination, not a home.

Jessica Natividad is fully bilingual and has spoken English and Spanish since her childhood. John's father made a point to speak only English to him, but John has relearned Spanish and now considers himself bilingual. He works as a production technician for Metal Container Co., and Jessica manages a cleaning company.

Despite being U.S. citizens, they said they still face daily discrimination for being Latino.

About a year ago, the Natividads were in an aisle at Wal-Mart when a young Anglo man told his wife to watch out for John, who was in a electronic cart after surgery. The young woman said, "What's the difference? He doesn't speak English anyway."

The comment offended John. He responded that he spoke not only English but Spanish as well. The man grew upset with him, and they began arguing "We have to deal with that stuff daily," John said. "You see it, and you think, 'What is wrong with these people?' "

The Natividads said they have neighbors that haven't spoken to them in nine years because the Natividads are brown-skinned. John has a co-worker he said has spoken about 20 words to him in 10 years for the same reason. Jessica has been accused of shoplifting twice at local stores.

Morales said he's never felt discriminated against in Greeley, except from Latinos who laugh at him when he speaks Spanish incorrectly and when he can't understand what they are saying. He said he grew up unaware of any differences between himself and others, despite his Latino roots.

He and his three sisters grew up eating enchiladas, beans, rice and carnitas, but they spoke only English in the house and were educated in U.S. schools. Morales said he never viewed himself as "Latino" or "Hispanic" but merely one of the kids.

"It didn't matter who it was; I hung out with everybody," Morales said. "I never had a certain, like, Latino group."

Even though he still enjoys visiting his family in Mexico (his grandmother has died) and holds onto his Mexican roots, he said he has no plans of moving from Evans.

So, how might this diversity and tension play out in Latino communities, including Greeley, in the future?

Steve Camarota, director of research at the Center for Immigration Studies, said he doesn't think the tension will ease between U.S.-born Latinos and newer immigrants in the next five to 10 years.

The conditions don't figure to change, Camarota said. Unless immigration policy drastically changes, illegal immigrants from Mexico will continue to flow into the U.S., which, in turn, will continue to increase the diversity in class, education and values among Latinos.

"It's easy when you are the Census Bureau or a politician to think about the similarities and common things they may share, but when you actually get down on the ground, what you find is a great diversity of opinion and perspective," Camarota said.

Roberto Córdova, a retired University of Northern Colorado professor, said even though differences exist, he believes the common roots in Latin America and the Latino culture may eventually unite all Latinos.

"On a cultural level," he said, "we are much more alike than we are different."


http://juantornoe.blogs.com/hispanic...ture/page/131/
__________________
Freibier gab's gestern

Hay burros en el maiz

RAP IS TO MUSIC WHAT ETCH-A-SKETCH IS TO ART

Don't drink and post.

"A nickel will get you on the subway, but garlic will get you a seat." - Old New York Yiddish Saying

"You can observe a lot just by watching." Yogi Berra

Old journeyman commenting on young apprentices - "Think about it, these are their old days"

SOMETIMES IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.

Never, ever, wear a bright colored shirt to a stand up comedy show.

Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-02-2012, 10:07 AM
Jeanfromfillmore's Avatar
Jeanfromfillmore Jeanfromfillmore is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,287
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by _pruthmip View Post
Absolutely with you it agree. It seems to me it is excellent idea. I agree with you.
Another troll!
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-02-2012, 10:51 PM
ilbegone's Avatar
ilbegone ilbegone is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,068
Default

There seems to be a person nominally from the Netherlands who has multiple registrations - very similar posts, similar modus operandi with "about me" and "contact info" in profile.

Without going into the profile, I think this is that person.
__________________
Freibier gab's gestern

Hay burros en el maiz

RAP IS TO MUSIC WHAT ETCH-A-SKETCH IS TO ART

Don't drink and post.

"A nickel will get you on the subway, but garlic will get you a seat." - Old New York Yiddish Saying

"You can observe a lot just by watching." Yogi Berra

Old journeyman commenting on young apprentices - "Think about it, these are their old days"

SOMETIMES IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.

Never, ever, wear a bright colored shirt to a stand up comedy show.

Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:32 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright SaveOurState ©2009 - 2016 All Rights Reserved