Sandy Hook & Other Mass Shootings

[Don]

Update to my original post regarding the apparent killing of all eye witnesses and the absence of any wounded victims:

Two percipient witnesses, including one who sustained gunshot wounds, who saw the shooter have appeared.

(1) A Sandy Hook School staffer named Natalie Hammond was with the Principal and School Psychologist when the three of them were confronted by the shooter who opened up killing the other two and wounding Natalie Hammond in the hand, leg and foot. She crawled into an adjacent room and survived.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headline...r-played-dead/

(2) The second percipient, but uninjured, witness was an as yet unnamed 6 year old girl who "played dead" while here class mates were shot to death. Presumably she had her eyes closed while "playing dead", but she would most certainly have seen the shooter burst into the room.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headline...r-played-dead/

This still amounts to a fatality rate of approximately 92%...higher than any other known mass shooting. Thus far the two reported surviving eye witnesses have confirmed reports of a single shooter.

[wetibbe]

Yes I did hear that there were wounded survivors. But the media, typically in the rush to out do and report, also produced other erroneous information. Often they are running on speculation, fragments and sometimes just plain false stuff.

But backing up:

I received an E-mail from a friend to the effect that there was a report that the shooters Mother was actually a CIA operative. She did own an AR15 as well as at least two Glock 9's. The Glock's have a horrendous capability to spew out jaw dropping volumes of rounds. There are astonishing videos on U Tube. It isn't unusual for women to own guns and both hunt and shoot at the range but to own an AR15 as well as two Glock 9''s ???? Normally the ladies seem to prefer a Smith and Wesson PINK six shooter revolver. It seems the Mother was an enthusiastic practitioner at the gun ranges. It isn't difficult to figure out where the shooter acquired his shooting skills as well as his weapons.

I own lots of guns. I keep then in a locked gun locker. Same for my son. How did the shooter acquire his Mom's guns ?

I hear that the shootings occurred primarily in TWO class rooms. It would be like shooting fish in a barrel. The ultra high volumes of fire and multiple wounds could account for the high mortality as opposed to possible other circumstances in the other shootings.

As to the AR15 coming in .223 caliber and being "marginal for coyotes, the latest issue of the NRA American Hunter Magazine contains an article by an avid coyote hunter who evaluated 9 calibers for the firearm. The AR15 actually has been manufactured to shoot many calibers ranging from .17 to .25. The .17 is particularly lethal because it has a projectile of 4,00o fps in 30 grain bullets. All of the calibers are good coyote rounds. Some better than others.

The article goes on to say that the .17 caliber leaves a very small entrance wound channel and that it usually does not come out the other side. That means the energy dump is all inside. For fur gatherers that is attractive because it doesn't cause much pelt damage. There is the matter of 'hydraulic shock" too. U Tube videos of shooting a water melon vividly demonstrate the explosive results. So the internal damage to a live target would essentially turn the insides into mush. The article says coyotes drop like a rock in their tracks with some calibers. However, some other calibers like the .222 have resulted in the coyotes limping off and being lost. So the criteria is first caliber and the grains of bullet weight and velocity. Further, according to the author, fast follow up shots are also a plus. So shooting the kids would be like spraying them with a garden hose.

Wayne La Pierre advocated armed guards in every school. I agree entirely just like I promoted the arming of airline pilots and sky marshal's. Sadly the liberals and gun opponents remain deaf dumb and stupid about protecting the schools. Those schools are sitting ducks and the would be shooters know it. Some deterrent will give pause for thought. There are lots of other ways to improve security, locked doors, bars on windows, controlled access. Look at what it takes now to board an airplane. But why rail, rant and rave. The gun controllers are too stupid to comprehend.

* What about the Nickel Mines Amish school shooting in Pennsylvania. The shooter killed 5 in a one room school and wounded 4. He used a Springfield XD 9mm subcompact hand gun. Not much of a weapon for mass killing.

[Rim05]

I cannot agree with having guns in schools, manned by any person. What is to say that person/persons will not have one of those moments of insanity?
I own guns and they have always been safe and not a threat to any one.

That said, I wish there could be a ban on all assault weapons and the high number of bullets in those high number clips. Seems to me , the only ones who should have those guns should be LEO and the BP. Of course the battle field needs them.l

[Don]

Originally Posted by Rim05

I cannot agree with having guns in schools, manned by any person. What is to say that person/persons will not have one of those moments of insanity?
I own guns and they have always been safe and not a threat to any one.

That said, I wish there could be a ban on all assault weapons and the high number of bullets in those hight number clips. Seems to me , the only ones who should have those guns should be LEO and the BP. Of course the battle field needs them.l

NO guns in schools? Until very recently high school ROTC units all had guns in schools. I was captain of my ROTC rifle team. We had .22 Rem Target Rifles and M-1's and M-1 Carbines in the armory and every cadet was trained in handling, stripping and maintaining the M-1.

I have never done a study of crimes by ROTC personnel, but I have never heard of any. When I was in high school the problem was violence associated with football games with other schools and the ROTC people were never involved in that.

As for "assault weapons" if our presidents are claiming the right to have us killed as "terrorists" without charges, trials, or any other notice or due process, I want to be equally as well armed as the people that the President may send to kill me if he decides to designate me that way.



.

[Don]

Originally Posted by wetibbe

Y
* What about the Nickel Mines Amish school shooting in Pennsylvania. The shooter killed 5 in a one room school and wounded 4. He used a Springfield XD 9mm subcompact hand gun. Not much of a weapon for mass killing.

I remember hearing about this Amish school shooting. According to your info, he shot 9, killed 5 and wounded 4. More than 50% mortality but far short of the 93% of Sandy Hook.

The CIA angle always comes up. Who knows? I have always suspected that many of these mass shootings were false flag ops designed to influence public opinion against gun ownership, especially Sandy Hook with such a high mortality rate and the apparent elimination of all eye wit's. Now we have two eye wit's and it turns out one person was wounded. As a shooter, it bugs me that 26 people were killed but that the one wounded survivor, shot at point blank range, was shot in the hand, the foot and the leg. Clearly peripheral wounds. How do you miss at the close range he was shooting?

Much of the real truth will never be known because this is being used for political purposes.

[Ayatollahgondola]

The one survivor shot in the hand, foot, leg, may have been on the move....evading. The kids were anchored to their classrooms like sitting ducks. I'll bet that many of those kids have similarly placed entry wounds, but that their small bodies just bled out faster. this shooter was just plain evil in this act. How he got that way is still a matter for investigation, but whatever did possess him to carry this out was surely evil in origin.

I grew up with a kid that was quite different from most of the rest of us. He was a rebellious, larcenous, bold delinquent. Always at the root of others in his follow in destroying property. Schools too. Also destroyed a local tv station to the tune of 200K. He challenged one of his sidewalk commando henchkids to shoot a cigarette from his hand. Did I say challenged? Damn near forced him by goad and threat. He ended up with a 22 projectile going through his hand, leaving him in a cast for several months whith his finger like it was flipping the bird at everyone. He wore it as a medal through school.
12 years after high school he fired a shotgun at several people in the park, seeing them as some sort of demons that were a threat to him. He was tried and sentenced to 10 years in the state prison hospital, and has been denied release every year since, as late as this one. 25 years as a person too much a threat to release. This kid was a product of the 50's and 60's like me

[Rim05]

I forgot to mention the fact that some of these shooters could have drug use from the past. Drug use can damage a person and have a problem in his/her future. At least that is what I under stand.
I have never had any experience with drug users although there was a creep in the neighbor hood that we all knew he had to be a user. Thank goodness he is gone.

[wetibbe]

Naturally there are pros and cons, proponents and opponents to gun control.

I have seen arguments here that are so specious and absent of any logic that they are laughable. But to each his own.

Putting armed guards in schools is no different than putting police on the streets. The British put Bobbie's on the street unarmed which is just absurd.

Among my guns there is NOT any auto or semi automatic rifle. I'm an old fashioned hunter that uses only classic and conventional long guns. That included muzzle loaders. However, I fully support my fellow arms owners who want to own the rapid fire, clip, semi autos. We cannot give an inch to gun control. Not even a fraction. England Australia and Canada gave in and rolled over much to the catastrophic astonishment of decent, law abiding gun owners.

Apart from my having total disdain for Democrats and liberals, I am now also thoroughly disgusted with many in Congress - House and Senate. Forget about the Looney tune Mayors !!!!!

As La Pierre points out guns are tools. They are inanimate. They don't do anything until someone makes them do it. So the gun controllers have mis-identified the culprit. It is the nutty lunatics not the GUNS !!!!!

Take away guns and they will use knifes. Take away knifes and they will use grenades. Take away grenades and they will use bombs. Take away bombs and they will use clubs. Timothy McVeigh used ANFO in Oklahoma. Fertilizer and diesel fuel. He did a much better job. Got lots more people. Take away guns and we will have them loading cars with explosives and suicide bombing like Iraq and Afghanistan. I'm surprised that there hasn't been more of that.

The anti gun controllers are dim wits. Give them an inch and they will take a mile. This present hue and cry is predominantly an excuse to further their agenda.

I totally agree that it is highly desirable for home owners to be heavily armed with automatic weapons particularly in view of the worst, most dangerous and untrustworthy Government in the Nations history. All the more in view of the super abundance of Communists and racists occupying s many positions. When Fidel Castro and Hugo Chavez put their stamp of approval on it you had better wake up and smell the coffee.

BTY it is the law in Switzerland that every able bodied man MUST have arms in his home.

Here in the USA I would advocate that all legitimate state Militias must be armed with automatic/semi automatic rifles.

[Ayatollahgondola]

It has been noted that the perpetrator of the shootings at Sandy Hook elementary was well above average intelligence, and quite mechanically adept. He could have easily devised several bombs and orchestrated their detonation to achieve an even far worse amount of killing and mayhem. He may have chosen to use his mother's guns for a much different reason: To get back at her using the tools she cherished for her own freedom and safety. Who knows? All that time she was teaching him to use them, he may have been in full resentment