[ilbegone]

Originally Posted by Eagle1

While in a small Los Angeles restaurant that caters to those whose palate is stimulated by Cuban food I overheard a conversation entirely in Spanish which was quite surprising given that my initial impression was that everyone who worked there might be pro-illegal.

The conversation went like this:

Elderly Nicaraguan man in his 70's: "Gosh I can't believe that all the illegals are getting welfare and everything else and that legal immigrants aren't given the same consideration".

Mexican waitress: "I know. It is so unfair. It is an outrage".

Well folks I buried my face in my plate and was so very pleasantly surprised.

If the legal Latinos see the problem then everyone else does too regardless of how the media and government spin it!

They know. It just depends on who you talk to and that you know enough that they will trust you enough to tell you more.

This might ramble off topic somewhat, I'm not sure how to relate it.

There's a Mexican woman I've been talking to who is sympathetic to legalization of the "undocumented" but is smart enough to understand some reality. Perhaps her past is part of her present perspective - and some of it I intellectually know but don't understand. Sometimes she throws things out to test me, and so far, I've done well. She's quite bright, and I like her.

She was born in Mexico, but at a young age her parents moved to Spain, where she learned to speak a non Castilian dialect of Spanish. Returning to Mexico as a teenager, she was ostracized and left alone, I believe much like the experience a pocha would have in Mexico. Maybe she was more Spanish than Mexican, similar to the Americanism of the pochos.

Coming to the United States (I don't know under what circumstances) she didn't speak any English, but is now fluent. She is in her twenties. She is very involved in the education of her children.

Going to the University part time, she has been indoctrinated somewhat. In some ways she reminds me more of someone who was American Born than of A Mexican National, and her thought process to me doesn't seem rigidly Mexican. In other ways, she is thoroghly Mexican. In the earlier conversations, she might come out with something like how the educational system is broken for Latinos, but when I reminded her of the 1968 walkouts and that now the school system have been taken over by people of the 1968 walkout mentality, the educational result is the same. No change. She closed her eyes and nodded. It was like that for most of the standard stuff she trotted out. But, at least she's half way honest about the situation.

We were talking about Spanish language radio one day, and she said that it was total ghetto - it was making her Raza stupider than they already are (she didn't quite mean "stupid" the way it sounds). They need to be educated, and while those like Piolin might have helped with the marches, they (The radio jocks) are contributing to their ("the Raza") intellectual demise.

One day I brought up the conformity to Mexicanidad required by Mexico, and that some having been here a number of years have difficulty fitting into Mexico again. She said that You can try as hard as you can to avoid it, but some Americanism will rub off on you, that the Mexican who's been in the United States for a long time CAN'T go back to Mexico. I take that as meaning rejection by Mexicans in Mexico, something I have been told of many times.

I don't remember specific conversation, but I believe she disapproves of those taking advantage of social services and such, and genuine dirt bag behaviour.

She believes they need to learn English - she informed her husband that if he didn't learn English he could expect a divorce.

She stated something I have long believed - that Latin Americans in their own countries don't question authority - it is part of the culture to not buck the system. (I believe that they aren't really challenging authority by their illegal presence in America, but taking advantage of the lack of expressed authority). It is more in the Americanized nature of those born here to, in whatever manner, to question authority - that is a part of their assimilation which some would deny.