SOS Bulletin: Email in Circulation About Save Our State
 

The following email is currently making the rounds within immigration law enforcement / border security groups. I'm posting it here because, as you may know by now, I am a full disclosure type of person, and believe it's good policy to keep the organization's business in full view of everyone so they can make informed decisions, even if the news does not reflect well on myself or the organization. That said, here is what is making the rounds, and I'll offer a slight explanation after you read it.


OK then. Just so you know, this corporation was not stolen. I'm certain that if it was, I'd be under arrest by now. Neither is SOS a fraud. I worked very carefully when filing the documents, and in keeping with my full disclosure policy, posted them on www.PublicDocumentDistributors.com for all to see. These are official documents from the State of California, and I would not risk publicizing fraudulent documents, so we are not falsely using the SOS name. Neither are we engaged in a selfish money making scheme. We are still not soliciting for money.
Much of this other commentary is just so much puffery by someone trying to force their misguided opinions on the readers as gospel, so it wouldn't be time well spent hashing it out, however there might be some truth to the bitterness claim, as I am certain I have admitted to that before.
The author of this piece, Jeff Schwilk, I used to have some respect for due to his documented street activism, however I have also come to the conclusion he is an excitable boy. I am still exhibiting restraint in his case, mainly because I know he is being influenced by Nightingale, and I understand the effect she can have on people. So any response made in regards to his email will be limited and hopefully unprovoking. I must take some of the blame for the root of this though, and to show you why, I've published an email I have been sending to former SOS.org members in an effort to encourage them to return to the goup of us. After you read my solicitation, I'll explain again why:




Ok, so one of the issues, if not the main one, that likely inspired Schwilk's email campaign was the statement regarding Nightingale. I made that in specific because many people I had contacted informally in an effort to get them to register and join us, stated that they did not feel up to being harrassed by Nightingale for their outside associations, threatened with expulsion for having an opposing opinion on the forums, or being ridiculed about the political party or candidates they chose. Others had less common complaints or fears, but in general enough people thought she would still be in a position to continue whatever it was that alienated them from the group that they weren't easily convinced by mere spoken words that this was not the case. So I put it in writing: Nightingale is out. She cannot administrate, moderate, or demand someone else do so on her behalf. She cannot ban people from this group or forum; She holds no power over anything here whatsoever. I don't think that even writing that is enough proof for some, so I can only hope that the passing of a little time along with the deeds we perform without any hint of her involvement will convince them.
Now I am aware that some people still place a higher value on Nightingales worth to the world, and would, as well as have, willingly traded handfulls of good activists up to the hundreds for just one nightingale. I have come to recognize that as ghastly arithmetic, and have voluntarily risked whatever personal capital I have left in my reputation to reverse that plan. It has always been the body of SOS members that made the events and organization great and powerful. It was when they were belittled, dismissed, and dictated to by someone who was in pursuit of personal satisfactions and goals, that they retracted that power and the organization contracted and became nearly powerless. I hope and pray for the return of all faithful activists. If our effort here comes to failure, we will have ventured and lost little, mainly because had we not, the previous management were sneakily planning to shut SOS down anyway. We don't have to waste time proving them wrong or right. We can prove them meaningless though, by just doing what we originally meant to do that brought us all together in the first place.

Davi thank you for putting the email from Mr Schwilk up.

The documentation you present addresses the legitimacy of the
present SOS perfectly.

It would be a nice thing for people in other organizations to stop
tearing the efforts of others down.

This is all quite interesting. I have always respected Jeff for his devotion
to the movement but this does not reflect well upon him.

I hope that in time he will be able to see things more clearly.

After all, we are all striving for the same result...an end to the occupation of America by illegal aliens.

Thanks, and you're welcome Eagle1,

But isn't it way past your bedtime young man? (toe tapping on floor)

Poor Jeff. He screwed up his own groups URL when he wrote the email. Here ya go Jeff: http://www.socalpatriots.com/ :) It's an easy mistake to make when you're caught up in the moment. I'm sure there's some good people doing good things for the movement within there, so we want to give them the exposure.

So by not sticking to what you're told, be it right or wrong, that's considered going rogue I guess. I am just amazed to the lengths that some will go to promote ONE person. Think about it, these guys, Jeff, Gheen, Chelene and their associates will just keep badmouthing others in the movement over one person. Do you see any of the openborders crowd doing this? No they are more concerned with getting their agenda pushed forward. And to say that we are on a "money making agenda" I can only assume that they are concerned that we might cut into their donations. What a line of crap.

What is really comical is the fact that Chelene doesn't have a snowballs chance in hell of getting anywhere. But these guys would rather work at trying create problems for us for such a stupid campaign. Where are their heads? They are acting like high school kids voting for the prom queen.

These people can hardly get along with each other most of the time, yet they imply that everyone else is a problem.

I spent many hours with Chelene, MANY. And I was with the old SOS shortly after Chelene came on the scene and was there at the end. What Jeff is stating is just a bunch of bs. Chelene lied to me over stuff that where there was no reason to lie. It was said just to make her look better than what was the real truth. Chelenes not the worst of people, but she's certainly not the best. It's all a show with her and these guys are falling for it. Wouldn't be the first time people have gotten fooled. But to go to the lengths that they are going, to actually try to do damage to the cause is unforgivable. What makes theses people tic?

The old org hadn't "run its coarse" it was gutted by Chelene. I was there and I saw it. I started to notice if well over a year ago and started mentioning it. Some of Chelenes lapdogs got on me about say anything about it or bringing it to the members attention. That was right about the time she got the 'coalition' together. That move was to hide the fact that the membership had stopped supporting her and no SOS members were showing up to any of the events. Who was showing up was CCIR and the other orgs, but not SOS members.

Driving around Sacramento will a mobile billbord, supporting SOS sure seems "Destructive" to Me.
And probably pretty "Destructive to Your wallet as well.

There's VERY few SOS'ers in Northern Ca., and I think that it's good to know that I'm not alone.

CB.

Flush the egos and let us unite for the fight. I've been touched by so many of you. God Bless America!

Thanks for posting this AG. It shows just how deep the insecurity and childishness goes in some aspects of this movement.

As far as Schwilk-ingale goes, it was not people "going rogue" that brought about the demise of the old SoS, but Nightingale's hubris. So this SOS is not part of the officially sanctioned cabal. Big deal. Look who is here...people that have actually organized and been out on the street. Many of the people here were at Nightingale's "leadership" meeting a couple of years ago. Sadly, Schwilk-ingale does not see this...most likely by choice. That's fine. The two things that will shut the mouths of these people are action and results.

Well let them complain if they want to.

They will really have something to complain of when we hold our first
official SOS rally with our banner and all.

I've discussed this with Jean as I tried to get her drunk but she was too smart and got away.

We must discuss a rally amongst ourselves and away from prying eyes.

I suggest we take the email as an act of recognition.

There are a lot of people that have been banned from participation
in rallies by the SoCal coalition.

Many of them are really good patriotic Americans that have done a great deal
in the movement and who have put themselves in harms way.

Some of my favorites are Debbs and Craig Britt, Raymond Herrera and of course the ever wonderful Robin.

Some may object to the affiliations these people might have but to each his own.

I think these folks are great.

You see it's all about the cause not anyones chosen group. It's about America and our American way of life.
Everything else is nothing else.:):):)

The issue is clear. Schwilk-ingale think that they have a monopoly on this movement. They are sadly mistaken. The time has come, and the time is now. We are facing another amnesty. The situation is dire since we have a Demon-crap controlled Congress and White House. There is no one like Tom Tancredo out to take the lead, so it means that we have to do whatever we can to stop Amnesty III. I think that we should be aware of what Schwilk-ingale are up to, but we should not fixate on it. We have a country to save, not email lists. I say, "Let's roll!"

I'm glad someone brought up Robin and Raymond. These two really got a bad deal from Chelene, Jeff and William all because of a fight these three had with Gilchrist. That was not my fight and I resent the three of them expecting me or anyone else to gang up on them because Chelene and the rest of that gang couldn't keep their opinions to themselves. Gilchrist or anyone associated with him didn't do anything to me so why should I campaign against him? It was just like in high school. If you didn't like someone you wanted everyone else to not like them. Well we're not in high school so let's stop the bashing on all sides. I don't want to bother with it, it's not productive. Fighting Chelene is not my fight. My fight is with La Raza and those that want another amnesty. That's it! Chelene is gone and let's move on!

As always AG, keep up the damn good work!!

Jean you nailed it! Lets roll on the issue that brought us all together.:)

Jeff Schwilk sending out an e-mail with all sorts of excited proclamations and assertions.

I fail to see the novelty or importance of this event. He does the same thing roughly 8 times a day.

Oh but you do have a sense of humor...I have noticed that!:D:D:D

I hate to ruin it for you, but I wasn't really joking. Jeff Schwilk has always been pleasant and respectful to me; even when I'm confident Chelene Nightingale was calling me every name in the book, but let's face it, he's a blowhard. A number of his written communications are these wildly exclamatory offerings, not dissimilar to the e-mail he sent about us.

Many of his e-mails during the past year have been in support of this Southern California Coalition that he repeatedly states is composed of mainstream illegal immigration opponents. He's issued mantra-like proclamations that our coalition is strong! and what not. However, I really never got the impression that the "coalition" was even half as important to anyone else, as it was to Chelene and Jeff.

Actually, his e-mail takes one more thing off my To Do list. I was going to contact him in a week or two and ask him to remove Save Our State from his list of coalition participants. I really didn't want us affiliated with an entity that is designed to ostracize a lot of people who have contributed a good deal.

Other than some entertaining reading, I can't for the life of me understand how some folks think that mudslinging aids their credibility in anyway. Why bother slinging at folks who are trying to attain the same goal? Makes no sense to me, and takes away from an entire movement. This crap just contributes ammunition to those who want to throw a crackpot label on the whole movement.

This are two emails I sent to William Gheen with his two response:

Hello William,

This is Jeanfromfillmore. You may not remember me but we spent some time together the last time you were here in California. I was one of those that partyed with you and the group at your suite in Santa Monica till three in the morning. By the way it was a lot of fun and I enjoyed everyone's sense of humor so much. I had a great time. You were quite hammered, but unlike me didn't have to drive home another 60 miles.

The reason I'm sending you this email is that I am part of the new Save Our State.info. I hold no grudges against you, and actually have supported your organization as recently as April 15. At the end of the meeting in Orange County I asked for and you gave me the ALIPAC posters that you had printed up for thatt visit. So during the first TEA PARTIES on Apr 15 I took those posters to three rallies, Thousand Oaks, Simi Valley and Van Nuys where your organization did get media coverage due to my representing you. I support all organizations that are working toward ending this invasion and respect all those whose real goal is toward that end.

What I saw in the years I was a member under both Joe Turner and Chelene Nightengale was an orgainzation that was there at the right time and fit a need that we in the Los Angeles area were in desparate need of. This is the reason SOS grew in those first few years. But, sadly in the last few, egos and certain personal charateristics began to emerge. We had some of our BEST activists banned and then labled as 'goons'. This was not the work of a good leader, but the battle of egos and struggle for power. I never had a problem with Chelene personally, and don't consider her or anyone against the La Raza/Open Borders crowd an enemy. I have worked with many people inside and outside the anti-illegal organizations and lobbied with Chelene in the Rayburn Building while we were both in DC together. I spoke to you while we were there a few years back, but I don't draw much attention to myself and you probably wouldn't remember me.

I mention that because this isn't about me, and it isn't about you, Chelene, Barbara Coe, Jeff, or Gilchrist. It's about making progress and putting up a decent resistance. We don't have the numbers that the open borders orgs have and that includes your org. That is the truth whether we want to admit it or not. So many of our citizens are so complacent that they expect others to carry the message and will only go so far when it comes to real activism. That is a fact and what we are battleing an enemy with a hughly funded propaganda campaign to silence us.

As far as the old Save Our State, the last final blow was Chelene bringing the Barbara Coe vs. Gilchrist fight to the organization. It consumed the organization and burned out what was left of our members especially after the purge by Chelene and others in management. I had taken over as director after Chelenes departure for a few months but the division that was created by Chelene and her few followers were not concerned with the organizations survival and it fell apart. Chelene had lost many member support and for at least a year and a half they were not showing up or following her as a leader. This may have been, and I beleive it was because of the Gilchrist issue. We lost Watchdog (Brook), and so many others, we were weakend beyond repair. And then it was found out that we members had been deceived when we were told we were a legitimate non-profit, which we weren't because Joe never completed the paperwork for the state. The fingers in management started pointing at each other and the whole thing became very ugly.

There are still some of us who are in this movement, not for political or monitary gain, but to protect what we see as being taken from us and given away to others for their own gain. You may regard this message as something humorous, or nonimportant, but I felt compelled to write and let you know how thing went down in the last few years at SOS from the perspective of someone who was just as active as Chelene and those you know about because of their high profile. We didn't make our names known, we're those minions that the leaders feel we will follow them blindly and not notice what is going on. Well we did notice.

You're taking sides in this issue does not serve anyone well except those open borders advocates that we should really be focusing on resisting. We all have something to bring to the table and deserve the respect shown to those in the limelight like yourself.

Some of us attended the Anti-Illegal Immigration rallies across California. I personally, along with 5 other SOS members attended the rally in Pasadena. I did not display the posters you gave me because it is hard to promote someone who doesn't support me in my endevers. I won't ever discredit you or your organization, but I could ask that you do the same. I am now in a management position in the new SOS also, and so your anger toward Davi or any others is also landing on me. No one or organization, including you and your orgization, can take any more division and retain the force needed to battle this upcoming amnesty push in just a few weeks. I do place a great deal of the problems on the doorstep of Gilchrist, but you and Chelene let him in and therefor hold some of the blame. Although you may not see us as a voice with any power, don't underestimate us. We're making strides and headway. We're working to bring all the So Calif activists under one umbrella of force and hold no grudges against anyone. I will tell you, I'm keeping Gilchirst at arms length and won't let him blindsight me. But I will say, you are not the enemy, so please don't conduct yourself as though we are.

Thank you

Jean

Jean,

Davi is in cahoots with Jim Gilchrist. We want nothing to do with
anyone that has anything to do with Jim Gilchrist. Me and Chelene did
not "let Jim Gilchrist in" and we have both worked together to try to
stop Gilchrist from causing even more harm to our movement than he has.

You are lucky we have done that because his recent escapades with Shawna
Forde almost brought down the entire movement.

As far as I am concerned right now, Save Our State is no longer a
functioning group. If you folks decide to start a new group and can
show some accomplishments, then go for it.

Personally, I think you folks should come up with a new name unless Joe
Turner personally endorses your efforts. Love him or hate him, Joe
Turner as Save Our State and the biggest problem for Chelene was that
she took on the effort of carrying the water for Joe who acted like an
absentee landlord around the organization in the final years.

I will always remember, revere, and cherish the positive and effective
campaigns that I worked closely with Joe Turner, Chelene Nightingale,
and other great members of Save Our State from the old schoolers back in
2004-2006, to the new bloods I worked with in AZ and CA in recent years.

Davie has been banned from ALIPAC for being a jerk towards me, ALIPAC,
and violating our rules.

I consider Joe Turner and Chelene Nightingale to be my friends and I
will adamantly oppose anyone that attacks or bashes them or that works
with Jim Gilchrist.

I will not be working with Barb Coe anymore because she back stabbed me
when I criticized her buddy and Jim Gilchrist / Shawna Forde ally Glenn
Spencer.

If you want to form a new group that we would consider working with, it
will need to be without Davi. If you plan to keep him in the mix, then
you folks have the best of luck with your endeavors.

I have not said or done anything negative about you and I will keep that
posture unless I get anymore trouble out Davi.

William
- Show quoted text -
Hello William,

You're wrong about Davi being in cahoots with Gilchrist. You couldn't be anything farther from the truth. You were sold a pig in a poke. Chelene threw that into the mix because she wanted you as angry with him as she was. And I might add that her anger was for little cause. You took her on her word and there was a whole lot more to it than what she told you. There are ALLOT of people angry with Chelene, even angrier than the anger between Chelene and Davi. I've tried to resolve some of it but some people just hate her and refuse to forgive her. You see you didn't spend as much time around her and weren't up front and center to the scenes and explosions Chelene is capable of along with the exploitation. It wasn't until recently that I found out how much she had lied to me, and I spent hours and hours with her over these past four years. Some of the lies were for no good apparent reason, just to project this image she wanted others to believe of her. Yes, I was around most of those years, almost from the beginning, and just shortly after Chelene came on the scene.

Remember you're on the other side of the country and there's something to be said about keeping your friends close and your enemies closer. Don't burn bridges especially when you don't know who really built them.

As I wrote I have no animosity toward Chelene of Joe, and you for that regard. I am not writing you for your permission or blessing. I am writing to you out of respect. I will always give someone the respect they deserve as long as they show a modicum of respect for their position. And as a person representing this movement I would hope you can keep a respectable discourse when discussing other activists and organizations.

As far as the Shana Ford thing, she was not ever part of SOS, and we are not part of the Minuteman organizations. So I won't give you credit for 'saving' us. And if you had been around our old SOS organization the last year and a half you would have known that Chelene had basically gutted it and there wasn't much left. I had started to realize over a year ago that Chelene was driving members way, but didn't vocalize it until about January of this year. It started just about the time she started the 'coalition'. She pursued that because it hid the fact that she had lost most of SOS's membership, either by banning some of our most active members who took a leadership role, or the members just got into an argument with her and left.

We members invested a great deal of our time and money to build a viable resistance here in Califonia and many felt very betrayed by the actions and direction the management, which was under Chelenes direction, and that also included Davi. But to her credit, she did devote a great deal of time to the organization and I agree with you that Joe did abandon it leaving in the hand of someone who may have originally had good intentions, but whose directions changed toward her own pursuits. I don't hold anything against her for pursuing her own goals, but I also can't condone some of the really bad things she did to some people in this movement. It was down right deceitful and maybe they can get their money back in court. Believe me, Chelene wouldn't win and she would have no defence in justifying what she did, it's that black and white. But that's between the two of them. It just doesn't leave her with as high of regard as I once had for her.

I admire someone who is loyal to a friend, and understand your standing by her, but there are always two sides to a story and to keep her in such high standing in your eyes it's better that you not know all the specifics.

This will be the last correspondence from me. As I wrote, I wasn't writing to get your approval, just to let you know that not all of those you consider 'the other side' are against you. I, along with most others hope that you succeed and that we do also. But what I do want you to realize is that this movement is not just you, me, Davi, Chelene, Gilchrist, Barbara, Jeff, Joe or Glenn. It is all those others who are willing to donate and get their butts in the street or in harms way as we did more than once in Maywood, Hollywood and Los Angeles. We've been attacked and had our property destroyed, yet we didn't turn our backs. Not until Chelene and those who were doing her bidding made the members feel deceived at that point the members stop coming or working together. Trust is a very fragile thing, and doesn't mend easily. This is the truth, whether you want to believe it or not doesn't matter. You will still have what you consider your friend, Joe and Chelene, and that's ok because we can always use a few more friends. I don't hold it against you that you side with them, because it's not about being in a clique and being the most popular. Maybe I feel that way because I'm not running for office. Keeps me a bit more honest.

Good luck to you William, we are on the same side.


Jean

Kelly,

I know Davi was in cahoots with Jim Gilchrist from my own conversations
and emails directly with Davi. Nobody else informed me, Davi admitted
his support for Jim Gilchrist when Davi worked hard to defend Jim
Gilchrist's continued support of Shawna Forde prior to the murders but
after enough evidence emerged for any sane person to understand she was
dangerous.

This morning, I have just read the e-mail that Davi has sent out to
prior members of Save Our State. In this e-mail he attacks Chelene
Nightingale.

It is clear to all that Davi has a personal vendetta against Chelene.
Otherwise, there was absolutely no reason he should have attacked her
specifically and by name in that e-mail.

Consider this your official notice. All participants in this attempt to
resurect SOS under the leadership of Davi Rodriguez had better stay the
hell away from me and ALIPAC or we will take action.

Do not attempt to post your information or releases on our boards. Do
not post or distribute our releases or alerts.

Anymore attacks from this new SOS, Davi, or anyone in his camp against
me, Chelene, or any of our allies in the National Illegal Immigration
Boycott Coalition will lead to a full organizational response from ALIPAC.

William Gheen
President, Americans for Legal Immigration PAC
www.alipac.us

Cc: Chelene Nightingale and Jeff Schwilk

He'll probably be doing that on his own now;)

I think it wise to follow up and make sure that SOS has indeed been removed from the So Cal Patriot Coalition.

Also I don't think you really understood my meaning...you're funny...really funny even if you don't intend to be and that is a good thing.

"Consider this your official notice. All participants in this attempt to resurect SOS under the leadership of Davi Rodriguez had better stay the
hell away from me and ALIPAC or we will take action.

Do not attempt to post your information or releases on our boards. Do
not post or distribute our releases or alerts.

Anymore attacks from this new SOS, Davi, or anyone in his camp against
me, Chelene, or any of our allies in the National Illegal Immigration
Boycott Coalition will lead to a full organizational response from ALIPAC."

Obviously the gentleman from the South has taken a strong position against
SOS and intends to keep it. So be it!

Jeez.....He's promoted me to leadership. And without a party, name tag, or raise in pay.
I swear! after reading the growlings of Gheen, Schwilk, and Nightingale, I often wonder if the three of them aren't brushing their teeth with gunpowder

It is obvious that you are on someone's mind.

Jean, I really have to wonder about you. What on Earth were you thinking? Why would you go to the trouble of trying to convince or persuade William Gheen about our pious motives or Davi's purity ... or much of anything for that matter? What is the purpose of entangling us in the brain dead slander-fest featuring Jim Gilchrist, Shawna Forde, Chelene Nightingale, Jeff Schwilk and (less frequently, but no less passionately) Tony Genovese, Glen Spencer and ALIPAC?

Let's say you had been successful. So what? What would have been accomplished? How does much of what ALIPAC does impact protests or anything else we decide to stage? And, of course, the idea that rational points or injections of facts were going to win the day in this bitter ego festival that has been befouling border security efforts for over a year ...

Sweet Jesus, Jean. Use the brain God gave you. That's exactly what we want to do, right? Let's pull a Nightingale. Let's just inject the entire organization into this trailer-park caliber turf war with no benefit accruing to any party.

That was just an exercise in getting nothing accomplished that could only have downside.

Sam, I never had a problem with any of those people. And to this day I still really don't. If they are not happy with us, well so what. But I don't get my information through the feelings of others. I go to the source. I am not framing my actions of what you perceive as 'stupid' and will not treat others a certain way because you feel that is how I should treat them. William never did anything to me, neither have any of these people in this "trailer-park caliber turf war" as you put it. I will conduct myself with the respect I expect other which includes you to give me. Remember you're not my boss, or in any other capacity that can dictate what or who I should communicate with.

One thing that we should remember is not to fall into the same hole that injured SOS's ability to attract and keep good activists to attend events and associate with. We will not banish people for their other associations, nor should we speak ill of them because they have alliances and relationships with others. Everyone is welcome here within the corporate guidelines and agenda, and is willing to follow the written forum rules. This would include Schwilk, Gheen, Mike Williams, and even, well.....
My email had one narrowly tapered purpose that was aimed at re-assuring victims of the earlier regime at SOS that they were not going to face the same fate at the hands of the same executioner if they attempted to place faith in the name of this organization again. It was solely the actions of one individual I was refuting and repudiating, although there were a few of us that participated at that persons behest too. It is not about Nightingales candidacy, her friends, or her other associations. Just what she did here that drove people away from SOS. I guess it was to be expected that some would circle their wagons around her for thier own reasons. I don't see any good purpose in provoking them and thereby creating animosity within our own organization due to allegiances others have there in tandem.
Gheen pretty much already told me I wasn't welcome within his ranks because I objected to his assault on Glenn Spencer a few months ago. No single person has to suffer over my individual actions unless he makes that so. If you want to continue with ALIPAC and Gheen, you certainly have my blessing, for whatever that's worth anyway, and no harm in any sense of the word will come from me or this corporation over your other associations. Same applies to SDMM, SOCALPatriots, CCIR, MMP, or any other groups or organizations that share common goals.
All that said, This corporation and this organization is allowed to keep its' own house in order. Along with keeping spam advertisers, hitlerian fanatics, and pornographic posters from limiting our audience goes our right to advertise to the general public that we have changed our management and why. Other people can certainly voice an opinion on that issue, but I don't see any benefit to them engaging in an "us vs them" program over our internal management.

Jean, I certainly could not have said what you said any better and I concur with all that you've written. You tried and now you have a clear conscience. That's all you can do. Thanks.

This is certainly FOUL behavior on their end. What can we do except to continue our fight. It's clear that this group, more than any other, stands for TRUE FREEDOM.

PS:
 

Additionally, I suppose that a key question for anyone visiting and reading these post would be to ask themselves SERIOUSLY: Is EVERYONE here lying???

I used to think that everyone else was lying when I was under the spell of the Nightingale.

Gheen well hes , well I guess I can't say it here what I really think of him The idiot would not have even known about the Shawna Forde/Gilchrist connection, nor would have Chelene if I hadn't pointed it out to them and it took me months to convince them of it along with Mikes involvement with Shawna(website and sleeping with her) and this was way before she killed someone. He acts likes hes God and is just worried about a "new group" coming along to take his money.(Its his fundraising time again).The man gets on my nerves. Anyway who cares what he thinks. We are the new and definately improved Save our State

You miss the entire point(s).

1. There is little or nothing to be gained by settling this. What William Gheen or Jeff Schwilk loudly proclaim has practically no impact on anything we do.

2. If you've followed the path of this moronic squabble (Gheen/Nightingale, et al. v. Gilchrist/Spencer) you realize that reasoned points will never change anyone's mind.

3. By posting your writings on this website, and the accompanying responses, you are successfully A) Giving importance and credibility to the debate, and B) dragging this fledgling organization directly into the middle of the conflict in the same fashion as did Chelene Nightingale.

Jean, I like you, I think you're far from stupid or a drama queen, but that rates up there with some of the most boneheaded moves I have seen in the past few years. I cannot imagine what possessed you to pursue this stupid argument, and in such a public fashion that included in Save Our State. There was nothing to be accomplished by what you attempted, and could more likely result in the same divisions among our membership that tore apart some of the organization we are trying to rebuild.

Dumb, dumb, dumb. I was really astounded by what you posted.

I don't agree DA,

SOS has made it clear we are allowing the discussions of intergroup issues, and I think she was making her views known among them. It takes a bit of courage to go against the grain like that, and personally I don't understand your condemnation. Certainly don't support it. But it is your opinion, so I guess we'll see how others feel too.

I'm a little unclear on what is exactly your issue with Jean, DA.

Are you condeming her for responding to Gheen, condeming her for defending SOS, or for relaying that to our readers?

I don't see how because I spelled it out pretty clearly in my last post. Reread what I wrote. Therein lies what I think are the (obvious) reasons publicly carrying on this "debate" in our forum is more than a foolish exercise.

Let me make this simpler: As soon as you can point out to me the benefit that would have accrued to us had Jean been entirely successful, you will have laid the first section of a reasonable refutation of what I stated. Let's just suppose that Jean's reasoned arguments had ever had a snowball's chance in Hell of succeeding, rather than generating the more-than-predictable blustery outburst about Gilchrist, organizational responses, choosing sides and other Nightingale-esque nonsense. You tell me what that would have been our gain.

OK, I'll start by reminding you of what came of me responding to Nightingales email campaign to discredit me after she evicted me from SOS months ago. Some truths were allowed to escape from the claws of those that have worked fervently to keep them under their control. In addition, people reading that reached out to me with their own stories, and it snowballed. I might also remind you that it was your response to that which taught me that you weren't driven from the movement by acts just like those. I had no idea you were still alive and active until then. That goes the same for numerous others that responded. And many of them are here now.

Well I'm amazed that you are so astounded. I'm astounded that you could be so disrespectful. What did you have to gain by being so? And your opinion is only 'your opinion'. I will not come on this board and do a tit for tat with you. I see that as serving no purpose. We both have a history that follows us, that's enough said. What I will say is William Gheen, Barbara Coe, Jim Gilchrist, Jeff Shwilk, and Glenn Spencer have never done anything to me and I don't consider them the enemy. I don't consider Chelene, Joe or Mike the enemy either, I just lost a great deal of respect for them for how little they thought of the members and our investment in the old organization, but I will not take that disappointment to the level where I want to destroy or weaken them.

This 'it's us or them' needs to stop. And whether it's someone from either side that declares that it should stop, to me is not important. I'm not going to waste my energy and time continuing to criticize others in this movement, even you. There is nothing to be gained by it. But unlike you and your opinion, I do feel that extending an olive branch may have its rewards. What was there to gain by not doing it? Keeping the status quo?

Disrespectul? I don't recall being the party who unilaterally decided to inject our organization in a toxic squabble we largely left behind when we discarded Chelene Nightingale, Janet Dennis, Mike Williams, et al with the dead husk of the former corporate entity.

You keep repeating, Jean, that you have never had problems with A, B, C, D etc. and that you don't consider them enemies. So what? Who cares? Of what relevance is it? You're Switzerland, I believe you. Why do you deem this so important and keep waving it around as some justification?

Let's examine what you see fit to accomplish on our behalves.

1. This 'it's us or them' needs to stop.

OK, has it been stopped? Did Gheen react in the way you were hoping? What did you deem to be the chances that he would when you unilaterally undertook this little heart-to-heart?

2. I do feel that extending an olive branch may have its rewards.

Great, what were they going to be? Did you realize those rewards? What did you figure the odds were you'd be coming back with these tucked under your arm when you saw fit to speak for Save Our State?