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Ayatollahgondola 05-15-2011 08:07 AM

Israel Vows To Defend It's Borders
 
At last. A leader that shows the way:

JERUSALEM -- Israel's prime minister says he will vigorously defend his country's borders after a mass infiltration from Syria.

Read more: http://www.sacbee.com/2011/05/15/362...#ixzz1MRCanxri

Greg in LA 05-15-2011 05:52 PM

Ayatollahgondola, I think your respect for the Israelis is misplaced.

There are many reasons that I think your respect for the Israeli's is misplaced, but I guess my main reason is that the Jewish/Zionist battle with the Palestinian's is their battle and not ours.

You need to realize the tribal nature of the world and how the USA has become divided by tribal alliances, especially through massive immigration.

Most Jews in the United States have dual loyalties, one to the Jewish nation and Jewish diaspora and the other loyalty to the country that they live in. Much the same way as Mexicans in America have dual loyalties, One to their "race" and the other to the country that they live in. These loyalties can change emphasis from one country to another, but the dual nature doesn't change.
The Jews have a long history of maintaining their religious and national identity wherever they live and all over the world.
The Jews demonize the Arabs in the media in support of Israel, and the American tax payer picks up the tab.

Our position in this world is that we (those reading this blog, and those fighting illegal immigration) have loyalty to only one country, The United States. The main reason for this is that we are fully assimilated Americans and have no connection or allegiances to any other country.

Please take a critical look at the reason the United States backs Israel so heavily. The answear is the dual loyalty of the Jews in the USA.
Please also look critically at who benefits from the heavy US support of Israel, the USA or Israel. I would suggest all the benefits go to Israel.

As for myself I have learned important lessons from the Jews and the Mexicans. My loyalties lie squarely with Americans first and secondly with Christians. What I am saying is that I have chosen sides, American and Christian.
You should also be aware of the persecution that the Christian Arabs have faced in Israel at the hands of the Zionist Jews. In the Zionist drive to create a Jewish state, The Christian Arabs were driven out (before the creation of Israel, Palestine was 30% Christian).

I see no reason for America to be used by the Jews to fight their battles. Bottom line this is a Jewish/ Arab battle not an American battle.

Greg in LA 05-15-2011 06:07 PM

http://www.alternativeright.com/main...rities-united/

Twoller 05-15-2011 08:35 PM

The current disturbances we are seeing on the Lebanese border are because it is modern, Zionist Israel's 63rd birthday this week. The so-called Palestinian nationalists use this occasion as an opportunity to further evoke aggression against Israel accross its borders.

Since Israel fell the last time, over two thousand years ago, Jews have maintained their religious and cultural heritage by way of preserving their scriptures and family ties. In their Diaspora, they have never forgotten their original home and what it meant to them and their religious beliefs. Now many Jews have returned to Israel to join the Jews there that never left and have created a state. It is a source of hope to Jews all over the world who have suffered centuries of brutal and unjust persecution. It is a source of hope too, to the rest of us, who are sick of standing by while Jews are the victims of constant attacks based on the most odious and slanderous of lies and hysteria.

Many Jews have come to Israel out of religious conviction, but many have come because they had no other choice. They were robbed, murdered and driven out of places they settled for no rational reason, for no other reason than the rantings of hysterical murdering mobs.

We who care about our borders should care about Israel defending its border from those who do not even recognize Israel's right to exist. Those in our country who dismiss our concern over the integrity of our borders and our citizenship have a similar skepticism over our right to exist. The US has a right to exist and we have a right to defend our borders and we uphold the right of any country to preserve itself, its right to exist and the right to defend their borders, Israel included.

Ayatollahgondola 05-15-2011 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg in LA (Post 16134)
Ayatollahgondola, I think your respect for the Israelis is misplaced.

I don't care a hoot about jews or israel. I was only pointing out what a person who runs a soveriegn country should be doing if he wants to stay a sovereign country; you defend the country's borders when you have a mass breach of them. Obviously our president doesn't want the US to be a sovereign country

Greg in LA 05-15-2011 09:57 PM

Twoller,

The only similarity between The USA and Israel is that in the 1920's and the 1930's there was a wave of European and American Jews immigrating to Palestine. The native population in Palestine tried to stop them, but the British that were controlling Palestine at the time wouldnt stop it. The Zionist Jews were coming to Palestine for a "better life" after all. Besides the land of Palestine once belonged to the Jews. The political leaders of the Jewish immigrants in Palestine had dreams of reconquest and creating a new land for the Jews based on racial homogeneity.

In the United States we have waves of Mexicans comming to our country "for a better life", the native population here tried to stop it and secure the border, but the controlling governments wouldn't stop the Mexican immigrants from coming either. The immigrants from Mexico felt that they had the right to immigrate to America as the American South West once belonged to Mexico. The political leaders of the new Mexican immigrants in America also have dreams of reconquest maybe even to create a new land, (Azlan). At the very least they needed to politically organize the Mexican immigrants based on their racial homogeneity (La Raza).

From the 1920-through 1940's there were probably about 300,000 Jews that immigrated to Palestine, and they took over. In America in the last 30 years we have had 30,000,000 Mexican and Central Americans immigrate here.

Brother, I hope you see the connection. I just don't want us to become the Palestinians.

Twoller 05-16-2011 08:01 AM

There never has been anything like a country of Palestine. There is no such thing, nor has there ever been any such thing as Palestinians. The term "Palestinian" was a term applied by the Roman occupation of Israel after the fall of Israel to further propogandize against the Jewish state of Israel. It refers to the peoples who settled the area from islands in the Mediteranean. It was a term resurrected by Arab propagandists allied with Nazi Germany who assisted in Nazi anti-Jew efforts in the Middle East.

Jews did not migrate to Israel to find a better life, more frequently, they were forced to leave against their will. They fled persecution. Jews have always and continue to accept the presence of non-Jewish peoples in the Jewish state of Israel and the Jewish people themselves are racially diverse, the Diaspora has done a lot to diversify them racially. It is Jewish belief that unites them.

Greg in LA 05-16-2011 10:51 PM

Brother Twoller,

I understand your point that, "there was no such thing like a country of Palestine". Except the British who conquered Palestine from the Ottomans disagree with you.

In regards to your assertion that the term Palestinian,

" was a term resurrected by Arab propagandists allied with Nazi Germany who assisted in Nazi anti-Jew efforts in the Middle East.


Brother Twoller, I am sorry to say that most of your comments in your last post including the one quoted above are complete nonsense. The statement quoted above is complete nonsense, mostly because after the Defeat of the Turks in WWI the entire Middle East except Saudia Arabia and Iran was occupied and controlled by the British, and French.
The natives of Palestine, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Trans Jordan, Yemen, Baharain, Iraq, cyprus, oman, Yemen and Quatar were under Allied controll. There were no Nazi German alliances. The only Axis power involvment in the region were the Italians, which fought in North Africa.

Your statement that "Jews have always and continue to accept the presence of non-Jewish peoples in the Jewish state of Israel",
Brother Twoller, this statement is almost laughable. I ask that you please make this statement to the Gentiles that live in the town of Deir Yassin...Oh wait you can't because the zionist Jews killed them all. ( I am trying to show some humor, but unfortunatly it's black humor, and it is all so sad).

Or go ask one of the three million Palestinian's that became refugees in 1947.

Or go ask a Armenian Christian, Christian Arab or Christian Greek living under Israeli rule. Please ask them how the Zionist Jews treat the Gentiles in "the Jewish state of Israel". Brother twoller, if they answer you all I ask is that you please listen to them.

Brother Twoller, If I may I would like to reiterate my point. That point being that the natives of Palestine in 1947 lost their country to an invasion of immigrants. The Jewish immigrants comming to Palestine were not going there to assimilate, they were going their to take over.

In America we have an invasion that is vastly larger. The Mexican immigrants coming to America keep their racial , ethnic and linguistic identity, they don't adopt ours. They don't identify as White Americans, and they group politicaly on their ethnic allegiances (same as the Jews going to Palestine).

As we all know once the new immigrant population is large enough they the immigrants take over politically, and we "the Americans" become the conquered.

Brother Twoller whether you like it or not there is a connection.

Twoller 05-17-2011 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twoller (Post 16136)
....

Since Israel fell the last time, over two thousand years ago, Jews have maintained their religious and cultural heritage by way of preserving their scriptures and family ties. In their Diaspora, they have never forgotten their original home and what it meant to them and their religious beliefs. Now many Jews have returned to Israel to join the Jews there that never left and have created a state. It is a source of hope to Jews all over the world who have suffered centuries of brutal and unjust persecution. It is a source of hope too, to the rest of us, who are sick of standing by while Jews are the victims of constant attacks based on the most odious and slanderous of lies and hysteria.

Many Jews have come to Israel out of religious conviction, but many have come because they had no other choice. They were robbed, murdered and driven out of places they settled for no rational reason, for no other reason than the rantings of hysterical murdering mobs.

We who care about our borders should care about Israel defending its border from those who do not even recognize Israel's right to exist. Those in our country who dismiss our concern over the integrity of our borders and our citizenship have a similar skepticism over our right to exist. The US has a right to exist and we have a right to defend our borders and we uphold the right of any country to preserve itself, its right to exist and the right to defend their borders, Israel included.

The latest attempt by Syria to cross Israel's borders is a wake up call to Israel. There is going to be more of this coming in the months ahead and Israel is going to have to do more about it than make pronouncements. While Syria murders its own protesters by the hundreds with international impunity, the same international community insists that Israel must stand by and do nothing while the same government threatens its national security.

The same people that undermine Israel's national security by imposing insecure borders on it undermine our national security by imposing insecure borders on us.

Greg in LA 05-17-2011 09:34 PM

Hi Twoller,
I would like to address the information that made you write this statement,

"The same people that undermine Israel's national security by imposing insecure borders on it undermine our national security by imposing insecure borders on us."

Good question Twoller, who is imposing insecure borders on America?

Here is a list of the Jews in the US Senate of the 111th congress:
Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.),Benjamin Cardin (D-Md.),Russ Feingold (D-Wisc., Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.), Al Franken (D-Minn.),Herb Kohl (D-Wisc.)
Frank Lautenberg (D-N.J.) ,Joseph Lieberman (I-Conn.),Carl Levin (D-Mich.)Bernard Sanders (I-Vt.), Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) Arlen Specter (D-Pa.)
Ron Wyden (D-Ore.)

What do these Senators have in common besides being Jews? They are all terrible on border and immigration policies, such as securing the American border, opposing amnesty and reducing immigration. In fact Numbers USA gives 10 of our 13 Jewish Senators its lowest grade possible... an F to an F-. California Senators Boxer and Feinstein Get a D and Wyden also gets a D.

Brother Twoller I am sure you know how bad Boxer and Feinstein is on Illegal immigration, just think what it takes to earn an F and an F-!

Please also take a look at this list of the Jews in the 111 US
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES:

Gary Ackerman (D-N.Y.),John Adler (D-N.J.), Shelley Berkley (D-Nev.), Howard Berman (D-Calif.), Eric Cantor (R-Va.), Stephen Cohen (D-Tenn.), Susan Davis (D-Calif.), Ted Deutsch (D-Fla.), Eliot Engel (D-N.Y.), Bob Filner (D-Calif.), Barney Frank (D-Mass.), Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.), Alan Grayson (D-Fla.), Jane Harman (D-Calif.), Paul Hodes (D-N.H.), Steve Israel (D-N.Y.), Steve Kagen (D-Wisc.), Ron Klein (D-Fla.), Sander Levin (D-Mich.), Nita Lowey (D-N.Y.), Jerrold Nadler (D-N.Y.),Jared Polis (D-Colo.), Steve Rothman (D-N.J.), Jan Schakowsky (D-Ill.), Allyson Schwartz (D-Pa.), Adam Schiff (D-Calif.), Brad Sherman (D-Calif.), Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-Fla.), Henry Waxman (D-Calif.) Anthony Weiner (D-N.Y.), John Yarmuth (D-Ky.)

Of the 31 Jews in our 111th Congress, Numbers USA gives one congressmen Eric Cantor the highest grade of all Jewish Congress men a B+. there are two that get a C-
14 that get a D or D-
14 that get a F or F- on the issue of immigration and Amnesty for illegal aliens.

One other thing I noticed is that of the 44 Jews in the US Senate and House of Representatives all of them are Liberal Democrates except for Congressmen Cantor who is the lone Jewish Republican.

Brother Twoller the facts paint a very dark picture of the Jews in our Congress in regards to how they want to secure the American border, and protect American sovereignty.

After gathering this information my only question is why are the Jews so unanimous in their efforts to undermine American sovereignty and our borders?

Ayatollahgondola 05-17-2011 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg in LA (Post 16184)
Hi Twoller,
I would like to address the information that made you write this statement,

"The same people that undermine Israel's national security by imposing insecure borders on it undermine our national security by imposing insecure borders on us."

Good question Twoller, who is imposing insecure borders on America?

Here is a list of the Jews in the US Senate of the 111th congress:
Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.),Benjamin Cardin (D-Md.),Russ Feingold (D-Wisc., Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.), Al Franken (D-Minn.),Herb Kohl (D-Wisc.)
Frank Lautenberg (D-N.J.) ,Joseph Lieberman (I-Conn.),Carl Levin (D-Mich.)Bernard Sanders (I-Vt.), Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) Arlen Specter (D-Pa.)
Ron Wyden (D-Ore.)

What do these Senators have in common besides being Jews? They are all terrible on border and immigration policies, such as securing the American border, opposing amnesty and reducing immigration. In fact Numbers USA gives 10 of our 13 Jewish Senators its lowest grade possible... an F to an F-. California Senators Boxer and Feinstein Get a D and Wyden also gets a D.

Brother Twoller I am sure you know how bad Boxer and Feinstein is on Illegal immigration, just think what it takes to earn an F and an F-!

Please also take a look at this list of the Jews in the 111 US
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES:

Gary Ackerman (D-N.Y.),John Adler (D-N.J.), Shelley Berkley (D-Nev.), Howard Berman (D-Calif.), Eric Cantor (R-Va.), Stephen Cohen (D-Tenn.), Susan Davis (D-Calif.), Ted Deutsch (D-Fla.), Eliot Engel (D-N.Y.), Bob Filner (D-Calif.), Barney Frank (D-Mass.), Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.), Alan Grayson (D-Fla.), Jane Harman (D-Calif.), Paul Hodes (D-N.H.), Steve Israel (D-N.Y.), Steve Kagen (D-Wisc.), Ron Klein (D-Fla.), Sander Levin (D-Mich.), Nita Lowey (D-N.Y.), Jerrold Nadler (D-N.Y.),Jared Polis (D-Colo.), Steve Rothman (D-N.J.), Jan Schakowsky (D-Ill.), Allyson Schwartz (D-Pa.), Adam Schiff (D-Calif.), Brad Sherman (D-Calif.), Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-Fla.), Henry Waxman (D-Calif.) Anthony Weiner (D-N.Y.), John Yarmuth (D-Ky.)

Of the 31 Jews in our 111th Congress, Numbers USA gives one congressmen Eric Cantor the highest grade of all Jewish Congress men a B+. there are two that get a C-
14 that get a D or D-
14 that get a F or F- on the issue of immigration and Amnesty for illegal aliens.

One other thing I noticed is that of the 44 Jews in the US Senate and House of Representatives all of them are Liberal Democrates except for Congressmen Cantor who is the lone Jewish Republican.

Brother Twoller the facts paint a very dark picture of the Jews in our Congress in regards to how they want to secure the American border, and protect American sovereignty.

After gathering this information my only question is why are the Jews so unanimous in their efforts to undermine American sovereignty and our borders?

As statistics go, how about a comparison to the christian reps who vote for open borders. I mean if it's related to religion, we should at least have a comparison, else these numbers are worthless.
I don't hold a bias towards or against Christians, but figured they were the next largest group to use as a measuring stick

Greg in LA 05-17-2011 11:08 PM

Ayatollah,
Yes one could do a break down of how Senators and Congressmen vote on border and immigration issues based on their religion or race.
I am definatly not saying that Christians are not also on the wrong side of the immigration issue, look at Bush, Clinton, Kennedy, McCain, Grahamnesty...

My response was to Twoller who made the incorrect assertion that the enemies of Israeli sovereignty and a secure Israeli border are also enemies of American Sovereignty and our border.

I just showed him that based on an unbiased tally of voting records, Jews in Congress are near unanamous in their efforts to weaken our border security, and our sovereignty through wreckless legal and illegal immigration. Over 90% of the Jews in congress get a Numbers USA failing Grade.

The fact that Jews in congress are so glaringly on the wrong side of the immigration issue is obvious to me.

One could say that the uniformity of the voting record of the Jews in congress is just a coincident and not connected, but I think that would be naive.


People with dual loyalties usually don't see the need for strong American sovereignty. Mexican/ Hispanic Americans likewise are a reliable vote against strong border security and for amnesty. So are some other ethnic groups. I guess I am generally suspicious of all dual loyalties. One could also say that ethinc and tribal loyalties cloud everyones motives. That is why I make my loyalties clear and upfront... I have choosen my side and that is American and Christian.

ilbegone 05-18-2011 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg in LA (Post 16184)
Hi Twoller,


Here is a list of the Jews in the US Senate of the 111th congress:
Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.),Benjamin Cardin (D-Md.),Russ Feingold (D-Wisc., Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.), Al Franken (D-Minn.),Herb Kohl (D-Wisc.)
Frank Lautenberg (D-N.J.) ,Joseph Lieberman (I-Conn.),Carl Levin (D-Mich.)Bernard Sanders (I-Vt.), Charles Schumer (D-N.Y.) Arlen Specter (D-Pa.)
Ron Wyden (D-Ore.)


Brother Twoller I am sure you know how bad Boxer and Feinstein is on Illegal immigration, just think what it takes to earn an F and an F-!

Please also take a look at this list of the Jews in the 111 US
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES:

Gary Ackerman (D-N.Y.),John Adler (D-N.J.), Shelley Berkley (D-Nev.), Howard Berman (D-Calif.), Eric Cantor (R-Va.), Stephen Cohen (D-Tenn.), Susan Davis (D-Calif.), Ted Deutsch (D-Fla.), Eliot Engel (D-N.Y.), Bob Filner (D-Calif.), Barney Frank (D-Mass.), Gabrielle Giffords (D-Ariz.), Alan Grayson (D-Fla.), Jane Harman (D-Calif.), Paul Hodes (D-N.H.), Steve Israel (D-N.Y.), Steve Kagen (D-Wisc.), Ron Klein (D-Fla.), Sander Levin (D-Mich.), Nita Lowey (D-N.Y.), Jerrold Nadler (D-N.Y.),Jared Polis (D-Colo.), Steve Rothman (D-N.J.), Jan Schakowsky (D-Ill.), Allyson Schwartz (D-Pa.), Adam Schiff (D-Calif.), Brad Sherman (D-Calif.), Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-Fla.), Henry Waxman (D-Calif.) Anthony Weiner (D-N.Y.), John Yarmuth (D-Ky.)

At last, some names. None of that all too common generalized ranting about "Jews", throwing everyone into the same pot.

Here are the further questions:

How typical or representative are these people of Jews in America who are non practicing in the faith, and how typical are they of those who are hard core Orthodox practitioners in America? Would they be ultra Orthodox on Friday night and Saturday - maybe even hiring a maid to flip light switches for them on Sabbath, then eat pulled pork sandwiches on Sunday? Or is their main connection with "Jewishness" a vague recollection of singing "Hava Nagila" in the sixth grade fifty years or more ago? Are they married to non Jews?

What are their voting records concerning American aid of any and all kinds to Israel, and would they be accepted in Israel as "real" Jews? Or would their asses be kissed as long as the gifts are received, then rejected as American "Manischevitz Jews" and given the bum's rush as soon as the party is over?

If they had nothing to give but a civilian, practicing American Orthodox presence and admiration for Israel, would that be enough to be accepted as worthy of recognition as a "real Jew" in Israel?

What is the difference between "Orthodox" in America and "Orthodox" in Israel? Would there be a culture gap between American Jews and Israeli Jews?

Are those Jewish legislators like self appointed "Latino" activists in office who presume to speak for a very broadly defined group of people, many of whom may not agree with them?

Does any of them babble endlessly about Israel and Israelis like racist ethnic studies professors babble about "Latinos"?

Or do they tend to be far left, indoctrinated in college wackos who just happen to have Jewish last names, not much different than any other group of out of touch, condescending,"educated" far left political morons?

Ayatollahgondola 05-18-2011 05:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg in LA (Post 16189)
Ayatollah,
Yes one could do a break down of how Senators and Congressmen vote on border and immigration issues based on their religion or race.
I am definatly not saying that Christians are not also on the wrong side of the immigration issue, look at Bush, Clinton, Kennedy, McCain, Grahamnesty...

My response was to Twoller who made the incorrect assertion that the enemies of Israeli sovereignty and a secure Israeli border are also enemies of American Sovereignty and our border.

I just showed him that based on an unbiased tally of voting records, Jews in Congress are near unanamous in their efforts to weaken our border security, and our sovereignty through wreckless legal and illegal immigration. Over 90% of the Jews in congress get a Numbers USA failing Grade.

The fact that Jews in congress are so glaringly on the wrong side of the immigration issue is obvious to me.

One could say that the uniformity of the voting record of the Jews in congress is just a coincident and not connected, but I think that would be naive.


People with dual loyalties usually don't see the need for strong American sovereignty. Mexican/ Hispanic Americans likewise are a reliable vote against strong border security and for amnesty. So are some other ethnic groups. I guess I am generally suspicious of all dual loyalties. One could also say that ethinc and tribal loyalties cloud everyones motives. That is why I make my loyalties clear and upfront... I have choosen my side and that is American and Christian.

The loyalty issue is key here, because I doubt that many or even most of those representatives you mentioned are even loyal to the cloth as well. They may call themselves jewish, and practice just enough judasim to con the general public, but I doubt they could pass any real scrutiny. Many religions have their posers. I might point out one of our previous management who wears her christianity like a uniform. But irrefutable evidence exists that she habitually violates many of christianity's basic tenets (read.. commandments). There are lots of posers who are associated with the practice of various religions who in reality are little more than hyenas wearing sheepskins. Here's where statistics, and I mean unbiased ones, really matter. First you have to set the criteria for the category. Are the Feinstein's, et al religious jews or just sheepskin jews? I'd bet you'd find the latter true. You might more consider that there is a cross section politicians who may have come from jewish roots, but they are likely new-jews that forsake any of the actual religious practices that interfere with the practice of making money and seeking power. If you want to recast the categories, I might be in agreement with you on some of your assertions. But I sincerely doubt you can come up with unbiased statistics that would prove jews in general want to destroy American sovereignty, unless you use polling practices similar to the ones the media does when they want to show support for amnesty.

Greg in LA 05-18-2011 09:08 PM

Ayatollah and Ilbegone, Those are great question about whether our Senate and Congressional members that identify themselves as Jews are religiously observant Jews or are non observant. I do not know the answear to that question.

You should also remember that Judiasm is not just a religion, More importantly Jews consider themselves to also be a nationality, or even a race of people. Whether a Jew is a devout beliver in Judiasm or an Athiest they are still Jews, and members of the Jewish tribe or nation.

The Jewish nationality is also transnational. Whether a Jew is a national of the United States, Russia, Israel, Great Britian, or Argentina it doesn't matter in regards to their identity, they are still members of the Jewish nation.

Jews are not just a religion they are also a race of people.

Chritianity on the other hand is a religion only. Most Mexicans, Greeks, Canadians, Lebanese, and Phillipinos are Christians, but they do not consider themselve part of the same nation or tribe.

This is why Jews in all nations have dual loyalties to the country that they live in and to their own people the Jews.

For example: Rahm Emanuel is a Jew. he was a former Clinton aid, Chicago Congressmen, chief of staff to Barack Obama and is now the new mayor of Chicago. Rahm Emanuel is also an American citizen. In 1991 Rahm Emanuel moved to Israel to join the the Israeli army, Even though he is American. (and in high levels in politics).
One might ask how can Rahm Emanuel as an American citizen just go and join a foreign country's army and then just come back and join American political life? Isn't that a conflict of interest?

Yes it is a conflict of interest, but it is a great example of how Jews have dual loyalties to their people the Jews and to the Country that they live in.

Greg in LA 05-18-2011 09:14 PM

Here is a great new political Ad. from a Jewish politician running for Congress in the United States. It's funny in a dark sort of way. He is trying to get Jews and "Minorities" to unite.

Unite against who?

http://www.alternativeright.com/main...rities-united/

Let me know what you think.

Ayatollahgondola 05-18-2011 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg in LA (Post 16218)
Ayatollah and Ilbegone, Those are great question about whether our Senate and Congressional members that identify themselves as Jews are religiously observant Jews or are non observant. I do not know the answear to that question.

You should also remember that Judiasm is not just a religion, More importantly Jews consider themselves to also be a nationality, or even a race of people. Whether a Jew is a devout beliver in Judiasm or an Athiest they are still Jews, and members of the Jewish tribe or nation.

The Jewish nationality is also transnational. Whether a Jew is a national of the United States, Russia, Israel, Great Britian, or Argentina it doesn't matter in regards to their identity, they are still members of the Jewish nation.

Jews are not just a religion they are also a race of people.

Chritianity on the other hand is a religion only. Most Mexicans, Greeks, Canadians, Lebanese, and Phillipinos are Christians, but they do not consider themselve part of the same nation or tribe.

This is why Jews in all nations have dual loyalties to the country that they live in and to their own people the Jews.

For example: Rahm Emanuel is a Jew. he was a former Clinton aid, Chicago Congressmen, chief of staff to Barack Obama and is now the new mayor of Chicago. Rahm Emanuel is also an American citizen. In 1991 Rahm Emanuel moved to Israel to join the the Israeli army, Even though he is American. (and in high levels in politics).
One might ask how can Rahm Emanuel as an American citizen just go and join a foreign country's army and then just come back and join American political life? Isn't that a conflict of interest?

Yes it is a conflict of interest, but it is a great example of how Jews have dual loyalties to their people the Jews and to the Country that they live in.

People like Emanuel are not the rule; they are the exception. I don't doubt that many jews would claim israel as their own, but you have to remember that that's also the sacred ground of their religion. I'll give you that many jews might even have a loyalty to israel to a degree, mainly because they went without a country for quite some time, and that might drive anyone to think they might not have a country in the US if push came to shove. There's a lot of animosity towards jews in the US even today, and with that as your constant companion, I could see why someone might keep a second home so-to-speak. In any case, that doesn't necessarily mean that they all want to dominate the world, or break down US borders.
As far as jews being a race, I say poppycock. Jewish is a religion, israel is a nation, and race is fairly mixed within the jewish faithful. Jews may consider themselves a nationality because they once again did not have country that wanted to claim them for a long time. Remember that those landing at plymouth rock were also fleeing religious persecution

Our philosophy here is that religion is a preference we don't deny. One thing that all of us share here, regardless of race or creed, is that we all feel strongly about fighting corruption, keeping our nation protected the way it was chartered, and retaining a sense of cultural flavor that identifies with our history, but allowing for a slight influence from immigration and general philosophical growth. It's hard to find people who will oppose power mongers who would cheat, manipulate, and lie their way into control, if not outright force the issue. If we start limiting our choices of comrades...if you will, by excluding jews or whatever other religion, we're going to have a longer and more costly battle in terms of our own betheren. If we actually send out vibes that we don't trust all jews, not only will they not help us, but they may join the other side out of fear or necessity. We believe that there are jews that love America, and will defend it. I personally feel that the odds are quite well against the concept that all jews are more loyal to israel than any other nation, or that all of them have it in for a sovereign America

Twoller 05-19-2011 09:52 AM

The important thing to remember about Judaism and the Jewish people is that never in ancient history of Jews and Judaism have Jews ever sought to impose their beliefs on anybody else. And nowhere in the scripture or teachings of Judaism is it ever suggested that anyone else besides Jews was obligated to the beliefs of Judaism and that Jews were in no way obligated to advance the understanding or adoption of Jewish belief to anyone else. And being a Jew is a matter of family. According to Jewish belief, only the descendents of Jews are the Jews of Jewish belief. Others may convert to Jewish belief, but this fundamental belief about who is a Jew is one of the beliefs that rationally must be included in that conversion.

As a matter of religion or scripture or teachings, nobody is under threat of submission to Jews or Jewish believers. Contrast this with Islam or Catholicism which both have a rich history of not only violently subjegating other peoples to their beliefs, but violently policing their own believers for lapses or discretions, imagined or otherwise. And of course they reserve their most frenzied violence against Jews themselves. This is especially ironic considering that both these religions claim the God of Israel as their own. They claim that Jews are evil aggressors against these new claimed beliefs about their God. They advance the weirdest and most odious of lies against them.

If you are a citizen of these United States of America, then you disavow loyalty to any other country. But the US cannot dictate the citizenship policy of other countries. If they want to allow citizenship for other people who claim citizenship in some other country, then our only response can be to remind our citizens their obligation if they are to be citizens at all. When we mint new citizens, they take an oath to disavow loyalty anywhere else. We are serious about this oath and subject our citizens to laws governing these loyalties. That is enough, I think until somebody can think of a better way of handling this.

willworkforfood 05-19-2011 05:55 PM

Obama Sides With Palestinians — Endorses 1967 Border Demands

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/obam...order-demands/

ilbegone 05-19-2011 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twoller (Post 16229)
The important thing to remember about Judaism and the Jewish people is that never in ancient history of Jews and Judaism have Jews ever sought to impose their beliefs on anybody else. And nowhere in the scripture or teachings of Judaism is it ever suggested that anyone else besides Jews was obligated to the beliefs of Judaism and that Jews were in no way obligated to advance the understanding or adoption of Jewish belief to anyone else. And being a Jew is a matter of family. According to Jewish belief, only the descendents of Jews are the Jews of Jewish belief. Others may convert to Jewish belief, but this fundamental belief about who is a Jew is one of the beliefs that rationally must be included in that conversion.

As a matter of religion or scripture or teachings, nobody is under threat of submission to Jews or Jewish believers. Contrast this with Islam or Catholicism which both have a rich history of not only violently subjegating other peoples to their beliefs, but violently policing their own believers for lapses or discretions, imagined or otherwise. And of course they reserve their most frenzied violence against Jews themselves. This is especially ironic considering that both these religions claim the God of Israel as their own. They claim that Jews are evil aggressors against these new claimed beliefs about their God. They advance the weirdest and most odious of lies against them.

If you are a citizen of these United States of America, then you disavow loyalty to any other country. But the US cannot dictate the citizenship policy of other countries. If they want to allow citizenship for other people who claim citizenship in some other country, then our only response can be to remind our citizens their obligation if they are to be citizens at all. When we mint new citizens, they take an oath to disavow loyalty anywhere else. We are serious about this oath and subject our citizens to laws governing these loyalties. That is enough, I think until somebody can think of a better way of handling this.

I'm tired, I'll make it short.

Keeping separate the ancient from the modern, you haven't read much of the Old Testament, have you. Lots of massacring of Canaanites, and all the rest - including execution by stoning and much of what is currently claimed of Islam.

As I've stated before, genetically Palestinians and Israelis are very closely related, and the current hostilities are essentially a family fight over the inheritance which is thousands of years old. Way before our time, and the religious issues are merely a sideshow in my view.

You are correct that historically Jews haven't pushed their beliefs on others, but Pre AD 70 they weren't exactly welcoming of those outside of their closed fold either.

ilbegone 05-19-2011 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg in LA (Post 16218)
Ayatollah and Ilbegone, Those are great question about whether our Senate and Congressional members that identify themselves as Jews are religiously observant Jews or are non observant. I do not know the answear to that question.

You should also remember that Judiasm is not just a religion, More importantly Jews consider themselves to also be a nationality, or even a race of people. Whether a Jew is a devout beliver in Judiasm or an Athiest they are still Jews, and members of the Jewish tribe or nation.

The Jewish nationality is also transnational. Whether a Jew is a national of the United States, Russia, Israel, Great Britian, or Argentina it doesn't matter in regards to their identity, they are still members of the Jewish nation.

Jews are not just a religion they are also a race of people.

Chritianity on the other hand is a religion only. Most Mexicans, Greeks, Canadians, Lebanese, and Phillipinos are Christians, but they do not consider themselve part of the same nation or tribe.

This is why Jews in all nations have dual loyalties to the country that they live in and to their own people the Jews.

For example: Rahm Emanuel is a Jew. he was a former Clinton aid, Chicago Congressmen, chief of staff to Barack Obama and is now the new mayor of Chicago. Rahm Emanuel is also an American citizen. In 1991 Rahm Emanuel moved to Israel to join the the Israeli army, Even though he is American. (and in high levels in politics).
One might ask how can Rahm Emanuel as an American citizen just go and join a foreign country's army and then just come back and join American political life? Isn't that a conflict of interest?

Yes it is a conflict of interest, but it is a great example of how Jews have dual loyalties to their people the Jews and to the Country that they live in.

I've heard the quote that Jews are considered white until they are the "popular" subject of a pogrom...

I've also mentioned this before...

A friend of mine is a Jew. She's not extremely familiar with the religion, and she doesn't give the nation of Israel much thought. She's an American who was born and raised in California. She's not a part of any allegations directed towards "Jews" by some.

Therefore, it is important to separate the bad actors from those who are just regular people living their life in America, regardless of genetic material or religious observance or not.

willworkforfood 05-19-2011 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilbegone (Post 16245)
You are correct that historically Jews haven't pushed their beliefs on others, but Pre AD 70 they weren't exactly welcoming of those outside of their closed fold either.

They still aren't really, welcoming that is. They don't know what they're missing the Muslims either! Miserable people can't stand to see you smile!

Greg in LA 05-19-2011 09:52 PM

Brother Twoller and Ayatollah,

You are wise not to wish to alienate anyone. Like you I welcome any and all who want to join our cause.

Ayatollah you wrote, "If we actually send out vibes that we don't trust all jews, not only will they not help us, but they may join the other side".

Perhaps, I am less trusting than you, but as you look at the issue of illegal immigration and American sovereignty I suggest that you remember, Mathew 7:16: " By their fruits you shall know them".
Brother Ayatollah, As I documented in my previous post of the 13 Jewish members of the Senate 10 out of the 13 get an F or F- on immigration issues from Numbers USA (the other 3 get a D). The Jews in the House have an equally abysmal record.

Ayatollah I am sorry to say that the Jews in congress have already "joined the other side". and did so without a single word from me.

Ayatollah and Twoller, your inclination for trust and friendship is admirable and healthy, I respect it. It is unwise though to disregard the facts that I just presented... and by examining their voting record, Mathew 7:16 still applies.

"By their fruits you shall know them".

Ayatollahgondola 05-19-2011 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg in LA (Post 16252)
Ayatollah I am sorry to say that the Jews in congress have already "joined the other side". and did so without a single word from me.

Ayatollah and Twoller, your inclination for trust and friendship is admirable and healthy, I respect it. It is unwise though to disregard the facts that I just presented... and by examining their voting record, Mathew 7:16 still applies.

"By their fruits you shall know them".

Politicians are for the most part, liars, connivers, manipulators and shysters. To adjudge the remaining humans of the same religious creed based upon the actions of the politicians would be a gross miscarriage of justice, and a misapplication of evidence

ilbegone 05-20-2011 04:10 AM

After the last six years, I'm tired of all this.

Let's flip it over...

Jeff Hall was a Neo Nazi who ran for a southern California local office, and recently was murdered by his teen age son in his sleep.

Jeff Hall was also a big part of the spit on me, please Nazi demonstration in Riverside a couple of years ago nominally against illegal immigration.

So, since Jeff was a white man who held extreme racial views and ran for political office as well as organizing anti illegal immigration rallies, every white politician in California as well as everyone who participates with SOS is a racial tyrant who would herd "Mexicans" and "Jews" into Cyclone B showers and cremate them with slave labor as well as decorating every tree in California with the bodies of black people.

It's just about the same logic as the discussion here about "Jews", and perversely enough, the words of a few lend "proof" to the charge.

Let's get off the "Jew" thing and address the illegal act of foreign nationals who who enter our nation without benefit of a legal port of entry.

The Waco Kid 05-20-2011 07:06 PM

http://sandinator.blogspot.com/

Check out Obama's body language is this picture.

Greg in LA 05-20-2011 09:22 PM

Ilbegone,

I am not sure what you meant in your last post, especially this part, "After the last six years, I'm tired of all this."

Ilbegone, Peace brother. I am not trying to cause you or anyone else problems. I am just sharing what is on my mind, and discussing the facts that I see.

I am not asking anyone to do anything except stay objective and alert, which is all I am trying to do myself.

Politics is a nasty and ugly side of life, I really wish there was no such thing. Unfortunatly it is a bad side of life that sometimes effects us.

Ayatollah you said: "Politicians are for the most part, liars, connivers, manipulators and shysters. To adjudge the remaining humans of the same religious creed based upon the actions of the politicians would be a gross miscarriage of justice, and a misapplication of evidence "

Ayatollah, You are correct, and I agree with you 100%.

Ayatollah, Twoller, Ilbegone, I have a confession... I have had it up to my neck in other peoples "ethno-nationalism". Mexican nationalism, Jewish nationalism... I think it is all opressive and I hate it shoved down my throat. When the topic started I thought it was a proIsraeli post. Then Twoller chimed in with his Israeli cheerleading . I guess when I am in a situation when another country's ethnonational cheerleading is being shoved down my throat my natural inclination is to stand up to it, provide opposition and fight it with words and debate. Which is What I did.

Maybe this is what we all are doing when we are faced with a situation when the nationalism of another culture is forced on us.

Brothers, I want to thank you for your spirited conversation, I learned something... I learned more specificly what it is that I don't like, and how I react when the nationalism of someone elses culture is forced on me, or shoved down my throat.

Brothers, I wish you all well. Stay allert, and stay active, but above all lets all remember that the Lord Jesus teaches us to forgive one another, and I guess that applies to other cultures as well.

ilbegone 05-20-2011 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg in LA (Post 16293)
Ilbegone,

I am not sure what you meant in your last post, especially this part, "After the last six years, I'm tired of all this."

Ilbegone, Peace brother. I am not trying to cause you or anyone else problems. I am just sharing what is on my mind, and discussing the facts that I see.

I am not asking anyone to do anything except stay objective and alert, which is all I am trying to do myself.

Politics is a nasty and ugly side of life, I really wish there was no such thing. Unfortunatly it is a bad side of life that sometimes effects us.

Ayatollah you said: "Politicians are for the most part, liars, connivers, manipulators and shysters. To adjudge the remaining humans of the same religious creed based upon the actions of the politicians would be a gross miscarriage of justice, and a misapplication of evidence "

Ayatollah, You are correct, and I agree with you 100%.

Ayatollah, Twoller, Ilbegone, I have a confession... I have had it up to my neck in other peoples "ethno-nationalism". Mexican nationalism, Jewish nationalism... I think it is all opressive and I hate it shoved down my throat. When the topic started I thought it was a proIsraeli post. Then Twoller chimed in with his Israeli cheerleading . I guess when I am in a situation when another country's ethnonational cheerleading is being shoved down my throat my natural inclination is to stand up to it, provide opposition and fight it with words and debate. Which is What I did.

Maybe this is what we all are doing when we are faced with a situation when the nationalism of another culture is forced on us.

Brothers, I want to thank you for your spirited conversation, I learned something... I learned more specificly what it is that I don't like, and how I react when the nationalism of someone elses culture is forced on me, or shoved down my throat.

Brothers, I wish you all well. Stay allert, and stay active, but above all lets remember that the Lord Jesus teaches us to forgive one another, and I guess that applies to other cultures as well.

What I meant by it is that I'm tired of all the stereotyping.

The "Jew" thing, I've known Jews who were just regular people. The one's I don't know I've seen on La Brea south of Hollywood Boulevard to about Santa Monica or so with the black suits and the felt hats on Saturday along with the ones who wear the old school brimless Eastern European style hats along with what I assume is a prayer shawl.

My sixth grade teacher was a very short Jewish woman with the warmest heart that ever stood on tippy toes to slam a pointer on a miscreant's desk. She saved me.

Your posts make it sound to me as though your liberal Jew Congressmen define everyone who has the genes, and there have quite a number of posts over the years which have been over the top concerning "Jews".

It's the same with the very loose definition of "Mexicans". It flies in the face of everything I know about the myriad peoples generalized as "Mexican" or "Latino" or "Hispanic", even generalizations as though they are all the same person by "Latino" activists who definitely know better than the tripe they float as "my people".

I generally despise the middle eastern liquor store proprietors I have met, but I judge them as individuals. There are two I know whom I'll back up any day.

I've stayed in a lot of motels over the years. If I smell curry and see a sign which says NO REFUNDS I'll walk. However, there was an east Indian manager of a San Fernando valley motel who made me a good, long term deal (months) on a decent motel, and intervened when her husband subsequently tried to rip me off.

As I've stated before, I'm in a weird place in my head with Mexican nationals, all at the same time I love them and I hate them all, while I figure I could trust maybe one in twenty. The first part of that statement just about any "Latino" advocate would understand the sentiment of.

Half of my extended family are descended from Mexicans, but they aren't Mexican - regardless of how many cactus and chile plants are in the yard, old black and white Mexican movies they still watch, or Jose Alfredo Jimenez and Little Joe y la familia cassett tapes which are still listened to by the older ones, nor of just who still eats beans with torn pieces of tortilla. The older ones do remember the days of segregation and tracks dividing communities, but that was then and this is now. And, the Spanish speakers skipped a generation. The long deceased Mexicans spoke Spanish and English, some of their children could speak Spanish (and they weren't and aren't considered by Mexican nationals to be Mexican), the next don't speak Spanish, and the forth generation learned Castilian (not Mexican) Spanish in high school.

Last Christmas I had four generations at my house - including toddlers, and I was the only white person. One group in the kitchen was talking about white people from the context of the 1950's, but it didn't bother me because there is just one racist in the whole group - it was just a recollection of how things were.

The so called Mexican Nationalism shoved in your face is from "University Mexicans", people who were born here and push a fabricated "Mexican" culture, which is greatly influenced by far left American politics and derived from a selective or manipulated and contrived version of Mexicanidad. The Mexicans who show up at the marches are sheep, if it weren't for the Americanization of American born brown racists who push the issues, they wouldn't be there at all.

To summarize, there's a lot more to it than "Jew" or "Mexican". Or "white person".

Ayatollahgondola 05-21-2011 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg in LA (Post 16293)
Ayatollah, Twoller, Ilbegone, I have a confession... I have had it up to my neck in other peoples "ethno-nationalism". Mexican nationalism, Jewish nationalism... I think it is all opressive and I hate it shoved down my throat. When the topic started I thought it was a proIsraeli post. Then Twoller chimed in with his Israeli cheerleading . I guess when I am in a situation when another country's ethnonational cheerleading is being shoved down my throat my natural inclination is to stand up to it, provide opposition and fight it with words and debate. Which is What I did.

Maybe this is what we all are doing when we are faced with a situation when the nationalism of another culture is forced on us.

I think many of us here feel the same way as you about having another culture forced on us. I've always said that a good idea sells itself. A bad one takes propaganda, pitchmen, manipulation, or force. I remember 20 years ago or so when I was happy to meet an immigrant. I was also happy to know them. But that was because the majority of them were good people and came here not just to make a better life for themselves, but to support the American way. Now I see immigrants as tools of oppressers, manipulators, and pitchmen. Likewise I see many of them have forsaken the American community for the agenda of the pitchmen. There are some who see through that though, and we need them desparately. We are being invaded, and since we cannot count on the US government to defend us, we're going to need the help of every willing mind to throw up our own defense.


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