Save Our State - Is it time to pack up the tent?

Save Our State (http://www.saveourstate.info/index.php)

- SOS Management and Operation Discussion (http://www.saveourstate.info/forumdisplay.php?f=25)

- - Is it time to pack up the tent? (http://www.saveourstate.info/showthread.php?t=3268)

To get on the event organizers committee, go to the link in your upper left hand corner on the menu bar that says "User CP". Then go down the menu on the left to "Networking", and then you'll see "Group Memberships". Just click that you want to join "event planners" and the administrator will make it so within a day or two

Location suggestion

I threw the idea of Santa Monica out there because I was thinking about the area around Third Steet promenade where some other groups have set up tables promoting various political views. The place has a mix of locals and tourists. It falls into my view that SOS has a fresh opportunity to educate the public. I think SOS had a past rally near the Santa Monica Pier. I was not there but I did see a video on Youtube.

I really do not know what area is "central" to our members as I am not aware of where everyone lives. I just assume that members close to any area will do what they can. I would hope that if there if a rally in San Bernadino, that SOS would not pass on it if I could not drive that far. That is the same reason I haven't driven to Big Bear lake in a while.lol!
Anyway, I leave it up to the group to decide when and where.

For what it is worth

The original Minuteman Project and the original SOS both had unique goals. The Minuteman project was simple and brought attention to the border something that was not happening at all. SOS (Joe Turner) had a goal of bringing local attention to the issue by organizing local protest. Both strategies worked for awhile and they both failed.

Protests are a waste of time unless some political gain comes from it. Keep in mind that only politicians can change policies, laws, and enforcement practices...which is the only thing that is going to make a difference. Standing around with bull horns (sorry Sandy if you are around here), inviting counter protests, or inviting protestors that maybe counterproductive to the cause, does very little to sway public opinion or achieve any political gain.

Until this is recognized, SOS, or any organization will always be a failure. They say politics is local, this is where the fight begins. Its voters that SOS needs, not protests. If a politician is pro amnesty, that is your target. Immigration or amnesty does not necessarily have to be the election issue. You use whatever is in your favor. You organize not by so cal, nor cal, you organize by political districts. You also don't advertize you are a anti illegal immigration platform. You are pro something or other. "Anti" gives a negative whereas "Pro" gives a positive. Protest have a place in politics.... but protest need to include a political strategy to be sucessful.

First off, Welcome back!
Always glad to see our betheren, who drifted away for whatever reason, come home.:)

With that said...I have to thrash you a little on a couple things

Quote:

Protests are a waste of time unless some political gain comes from it. Keep in mind that only politicians can change policies, laws, and enforcement practices...which is the only thing that is going to make a difference. Standing around with bull horns (sorry Sandy if you are around here), inviting counter protests, or inviting protestors that maybe counterproductive to the cause, does very little to sway public opinion or achieve any political gain.

Protests are not always aimed at politicians. They are often aimed at enforcement officials like the police or some investigation unit of certain agencies. They are also aimed at gathering support, notifying the public of a problem, or just becoming as much of a nuisance as the problem itself, so as to create incentive for change. Politicians are also not behind things like initiatives, and it is street level activism that gained the notariety that enabled initiatives to happen. Protests have been quite effective for people like Ghandi, Lech Walesa, Ceasar Chavez, and MLK Jr.

Quote:

Until this is recognized, SOS, or any organization will always be a failure. They say politics is local, this is where the fight begins. Its voters that SOS needs, not protests

SOS was not a failure, nor is it, nor is it predestined to be in the future. The past actions we did are still providing material for the effort, training for new people, and inspiration for those who feel the same as we do. In addition, I can tell you that our actions at the day labor area here in Sac alone had an effect. We brought pressure and the the illegals supporters had to spend time and money to keep them dispersed. Had it not been for day labor protests, the HD's and similar sites would be operating at 10 times the capacity now. Our protests gave the indication to authorites and politicians that there were limits to what they could get away with. Politicians can be bought off, threatened, and even bumped off after we elect them, so it's not all about voters. Protesters are what give them the backbone support they need if the first of those two comes before them.

Hell, I could go on and on about this, refuting your claim, however I'm not a bit convinced that this org or the others were destined to fail simply because they were not aimed at politicians or districts. Voters are being replaced as we speak, and voter fraud can cancel them out. What you gonna do then?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ayatollahgondola (Post 14846)

First off, Welcome back!
Always glad to see our betheren, who drifted away for whatever reason, come home.:)

With that said...I have to thrash you a little on a couple things

Protests are not always aimed at politicians. They are often aimed at enforcement officials like the police or some investigation unit of certain agencies. They are also aimed at gathering support, notifying the public of a problem, or just becoming as much of a nuisance as the problem itself, so as to create incentive for change. Politicians are also not behind things like initiatives, and it is street level activism that gained the notariety that enabled initiatives to happen. Protests have been quite effective for people like Ghandi, Lech Walesa, Ceasar Chavez, and MLK Jr.

SOS was not a failure, nor is it, nor is it predestined to be in the future. The past actions we did are still providing material for the effort, training for new people, and inspiration for those who feel the same as we do. In addition, I can tell you that our actions at the day labor area here in Sac alone had an effect. We brought pressure and the the illegals supporters had to spend time and money to keep them dispersed. Had it not been for day labor protests, the HD's and similar sites would be operating at 10 times the capacity now. Our protests gave the indication to authorites and politicians that there were limits to what they could get away with. Politicians can be bought off, threatened, and even bumped off after we elect them, so it's not all about voters. Protesters are what give them the backbone support they need if the first of those two comes before them.

Hell, I could go on and on about this, refuting your claim, however I'm not a bit convinced that this org or the others were destined to fail simply because they were not aimed at politicians or districts. Voters are being replaced as we speak, and voter fraud can cancel them out. What you gonna do then?

Hi Davi,
I guess you got my PM....and remember who I am... :)

As you know, I pull no punches but I try and be polite..

"Protests are not always aimed at politicians. They are often aimed at enforcement officials like the police or some investigation unit of certain agencies."....OK....Who is charge of those enforcement officials?

I will agree...."Protests have been quite effective for people like Ghandi, Lech Walesa, Ceasar Chavez, and MLK Jr." All these great people had a political end goal...

Your more affective using your strategy of code enforcement than protesting. Again, unless you recognize that politics is the root of the problem, you lose. Change the politics or the political environment, you win. You can claim all the individual success's or perceived success's you want. The borders are not secured, illegals still influence local election and policies, and protesting without voters behind it is useless. Change the politician, change the policy.

Rant on...:)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cole Younger (Post 14848)

We don't always hold protests; We hold events
Check through the upcoming events section to see what we've been up to.

But be careful about upsetting an old protester like me. I might challenge you to a duel :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ayatollahgondola (Post 14850)

You know I love a good dual...But I won't be hiking down the street with my .06 and in my hunting gear to go to the range..:D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cole Younger (Post 14854)

You know I love a good dual...But I won't be hiking down the street with my .06 and in my hunting gear to go to the range..:D

Don't care for the taste of warm asphalt? Once you taste black, you can never go back :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ayatollahgondola (Post 14857)

Don't care for the taste of warm asphalt? Once you taste black, you can never go back :D

It's not the asphalt...I want to keep my teeth...:D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cole Younger (Post 14858)

It's not the asphalt...I want to keep my teeth...:D

I didn't lose those there. That happened the year before, and totally different circumstances.;)
Open carry is an important a right as an open mouth ie the first amendment. I'm not a fanatic about guns, but I might be about rights.:cool: