To be honest, I am a fanatic about guns and I do know all about open carry however, always have a lawyer with you when you plan to exercise this right.

Excellent Idea. Cops hate lawyers more than they do open carriers. Giving them an optional target just might be the safest thing

Absolutely....:D

This is the key.

Too many people obsess about pregnant Mexican women and forget about what made it all possible.

The politicians.

Both parties have something to gain from illegal migration. The only difference is that one wants "immigrant" clout in voting numbers exchanged for "social" freebies and the other wants a non voting slave class exchanged for business political favor.

So the parties have to be circumvented and individuals selected for office who have the right interest.

After all, that's how we have the problems we do - through decades of grass roots organizing and successfully portraying brown racism as "cultural pride", the open borders racists have the education system in their pocket and have swayed the political battle, at least in California, their way.

I have come to the conclusion that until it is recognized and understood that politicians have allowed employers to evade immigration law and ignore "Immigration" judges circumventing deportation in over 60% of the cases brought before them while "educators" propagandize our youth to our sovereignty negation and cultural destruction, it is largely a waste of time to publicly chastise illegally present vendors of bacon wrapped hot dogs.

Errant politicians need to be run off while appropriate candidate selections are presented, and that's not accomplished by bagging on pregnant Mexican women.

Nobody cared before. Before the protests that is. People were afraid or reluctant to speak up before people like us hit the streets with protest signs, made commentary on social media websites, and spoke out at public meetings. So we pointed out the invading lawbreakers were multiplying at our expense, and guess what? People took up the anchor baby loophole. Now it's in play in the political spectrum
sorry, but you just don't go from one individual getting pissed off, to the politicians office, to change, without some hard, thrashing, social discourse, whereby you pick up either enemies or friends.
We've been doing the right thing, given what we have to work with.

It is uphill in sand and against the wind the whole way..

I'd like to see more about the politicians who create the mess rather than about illegals and Americans who are confused with being illegal.

If a politician or government employee of any sort, including judges, aids and abets illegal migration, that person is just as guilty as any human smuggler in the trade.

No argument there; But those politicians in question have to be sent a clear message how we feel, and we can't expect them to stand up and publicly denounce illegals unless we do it often and ruthlessly. we set the standards for them out there. If we sympathize a little, the politician takes license with that for a waiver.

So,...How do we feel? I have spent the last day catching up on much of the soap opera's, splintered so-called patriot factions, name calling, harassment, law suits etc. and I will tell you, it's a big disappointment.

When this movement started, none of this BS occurred. Many of the old timers know who I am but not under this user name. I was there at the beginning (I "think" I was #25 on the membership of SOS) . I left after it came clear to me that a certain decisions where being made that made no sense and would become counter productive to the cause. I didn't get banned, I asked that my membership be removed.

With that being said in my opinion the movement lost it's way. It failed to expand into other issues. Save Our State sole purpose was a anti-illegal immigration organization with one goal in mind. Well, its been 6 years and what have you really accomplished? There is very little unity and too many self serving individuals taking advantage of a issue to further personal goals such as running for political offices with no real hope of winning. It was a waste of time, effort, and money / resources.

Politics is the end game but it has to be done in a realistic fashion. These small so-called patriot factions have no chance of creating a viable candidate.

So tell me, how is stopping illegal immigration into this State going to save it? The state faces 500 billion (1/2 trillion) of unfunded pension plans...is stopping illegal immigration going to fund those pension plans?

Look, I will make this simple and to the point. Being a single issue activist group will get you no where. You are not going to get the broad voter support you need to make political change a reality.

"Save Our State" should be much broader than anti-illegal immigration which is something Joe Turner and the rest of the the crowed failed to recognize or capitalize on. This State faces real problems. Illegal immigration is a part of the problem but not the only problem. If you want membership to grow, this organization needs to re-organize and be multifaceted. I am not suggesting abandoning a anti-illegal immigration stance, but incorporating a stance against corruption, lobbying, special interest, government waste, taxes, etc.

Make illegal immigration part of the platform, not the whole platform.

Rant on...:D

Have you even read our mission/corporate statement?

Nope...but I just did...I still see no changes per se'

Mission statements mean little unless you actively pursue the implementation of them.

What I see on this site are copy and paste news article, emails, and a few comments. I see no forward looking plans to gain public support, membership, or activism political or otherwise. Maybe thats being discussed behind the scenes but if someone happened across this site they would never know it.

Maybe I am being a little unfair but having 50 active members from the old organization does not impress me. What is the goal? Are you thinking outside the box? How are you going to turn the situation around and grow? I don't see any brainstorming.

Has anyone looked at say the State assembly and senate and figure out there voting records on a number of issues, including subsidies for illegal immigration?

You currently have 50 active members. Maybe challenge them to find out where there state law makers stand on budget issues, immigration, unfunded liabilities, who lobbies them, are they good for the state or not etc. Are they involved in any political misdoings or scandals?

As far as the immigration fight goes, I would distance myself as far away from The MMP, ALIPAC, CCIR, SD Minuteman, etc...there leadership are all nuts and have lost sight of there goals..I am really amazed how idiotic these organizations became and the inflated ego's that accompany them is beyond belief. It appears none of them do anything constructive but they all have time to be destructive toward one another. If I were you, I would just delete the BS emails and other comments made. I know you like full disclosure and I respect that but full disclosure is not beneficial to acquiring new blood. To be honest, I see no need in having the old blood around causing trouble.

I suggest you acquire a new strategy. As long as the BS in the past is around, you may find it difficult to move forward. I honestly had no clue what was going on but I have a good idea now on whats been occurring and I will tell you many should be ashamed of themselves. Many have little to no moral character and zero leadership abilities. You lead by example and none of the idiots that claim to be leaders have a clue.

My 2 cents.

http://saveourstate.info/forumdisplay.php?f=6

With all due respect; I think you are seeing what you want to see here.

We are a non-profit public benefit corporation/organization. Non-profits are chartered to address specific agendas. Non profits do not alter their missions every year to accomodate changing political whims. Many people do not understand what a non profit is, or what it is supposed to be anyway. Turner/nightingale didn't either.
I have been on the receiving end of similarly bent advice such as yours lately, and it is usually coming from the republican heiarchy or the TEA party associates under their wing. I can only tell you this: We are what we are here. We didn't set out to fix all of California's problems, nor will we be led astray by such a wide ranging agenda

You are correct, I have no experience with non-profits.

So in essence activism is not the main goal nor is it political change, correct?

Is SOS basically a cut and paste news outlet? or am I missing something? Beyond cut and paste for educational purposes, is there anything else going on. Davi, I know you are active in protests up in your area however, are those protest unaffiliated with the new SOS structure?

I am just trying to get a feel for what SOS is about now as I am not sure what is going on.

Trust me, I am no operative of any political party or movement. I am now, and have always been independent minded and I trash all political parties and stupidity as I see it equally and without prejudice. If they deserve criticism, I am the first to oblige them.

I'm not sure how to address the cut and paste thing. Sure people gather information and relay it here to others that way. that's a good thing

we are still active, and that is one of our primary functions, however we are quite restricted by funding. We try and do things that don't require money in the interim. but we've still held events as I have pointed out to you. We will hold more soon. we do what we can, when we can. Check our calendar on the upper menu bar and you'll see some things going on in the state capitol that we hope to make an impact on. We still operate the mobile billboard too.

I should also add, that if think you have a strategy that could be tried, go to your user CP un the upper left part of the menu bar and request to get on the events committee. We're always interested in getting people active and trying new things

I have no problem helping out, I am just trying to get a feel for the operation and the strategic goal / plan. There is no use jumping in over my head if my thoughts exceed the operational limits of a non-profit.

We do have limits of course. Some of our own, and some by state and federal law. One of our goals is still to keep pushing the immigration issue to the forefront.

Many of us have been out there in the pits. With 2 teenagers at home I've become a shuttle bus, but do what I can. Many have gone to council meetings, and many other things and have done great stuff. Believe it or not, there are so many angles it is a 24/7 job. Most of us don't have time to discuss some of these issues being brought up and wonder why I am. But we are all out here, as for me, I'd rather take it to the streets and get it over with.

As a 501c3 non-profit we can not promote any political party, politician or political agenda. We can inform the public of events and situations, but we can not advise or tell the public what they should vote for or politically support.

Cole, there has been a great deal of activities with both successes and failure that have occurred that I think you're not aware of. Six years ago, no one was even talking about illegal immigration. Towns, cities and states weren't trying to get laws and ordinances on their book to fight illegals. They are today. We now have E-Verify and states talking about border security.

Six years ago, while I handed out fliers, very few I spoke to were aware of our problems at the border. Most do today. We've made great strides. While being with the old SOS, Joe had us do "One a day" sending out to all the City Councils throughout the USA, where some towns took up the cause, Hazelton,Pa being the most recognized. That was due to people having a voice and using it (although through a computer).

I appreciate your interest in SOS and hope you'll resume your involvement after such a long hiatus. We never stopped.

Jean,
you were around when I was involved. I attended Joe's very first protest at the Rancho HD.

BP 1 was a success but BP 2 was a disaster and was ill advised. I made my feelings known about it as well both publicly and privately and left the org shortly thereafter.

Voters are well aware illegal immigration and of the issues however, it is not there priority. Keeping there homes and finding work in this state is the number 1 issue. If the non-profit has its hands tied with what you have listed, it limits the effectiveness of the organization and puts the ball in individuals hands.

This is the point I've been trying to make to you. Illegal immigration and related issues are our priority. We do not seek continually morph SOS to fit currently hot issues that don't attach themselves to our agenda. We don't seek to be all things political. We address the lost homes, and the lost jobs by bringing attention to the effects that immigration has on them. There are plenty of other avenues and orgs for pressing other agendas.

Good enough..

This is the key to the entire problem with illegal immigration. Until someone (Gov. Brewer of Arizona, for instance) stands up for the people and against the special interest groups that dominate both parties NOTHING, NOT ONE THING, will happen to change the status quo.

That is so true Rimo! Many of our people are doing just that and getting great results.

Immigration judges.

They act in a manner similar to judges in "infraction" cases, they also act as the jury, and, as I remember, they deny over 60% of removal cases based on such reasoning as "the defendant is in the process of legalization" - after violating immigration law to get here as well as anything else that attracted ICE attention to the defendant.

We have to find a way to eject these charlatans from their benches and prevent law obstructionists from being installed in the first place.

As a note, they are appointed by the US Attorney General of the Justice department, the same people who are suing Arizona for doing what the feds refuse to do.

Here is something I found which might lead in a direction:

A lawsuit, inquiry by the Attorney General, or inquiry by the Office of Professional Responsibility.

Some of it is a circle - the Office of Professional Responsibility is also a part of the Justice department.

How do we seperately divorce the Office of Professional Responsibility and the appointment of immigration judges from the Justice department in such a way as to avoid conflict of interest?

It seems that the Attorney General appoints judges, oversees prosecution in the name of the government, oversees defense in suits against the government, and oversees the unit that investigates misconduct by both Federal Judges and Federal Attorneys.

Ilbegone,
It is unlikely that a anti-illegal immigration organization is going to have much weight in a court, or changing the way a judge[s] rule and to be honest, it shouldn't have. There is no different between anti-illegal immigration organization and any other special interest group. You wouldn't want pro-amnesty org's, to carry weight in a court of law and/or have influences over judges? If a judge rules in a way you disagree with, even administrative judges, there is a appellate process that can be invoked. You also can petition a federal or local grand jury to investigate.

Cole,


There is a difference between "My agenda vs his agenda" and ruling justly from the bench.

I've been railroaded before and I don't like it - I'm not suggesting that.

However, when someone is here illegally, they should be deported. It's not happening.

I see several things here whether I'm right or off base:

Immigration judges are both judge and jury. The judge may well be subject to the political whims of his boss - The Attorney General, who also oversees the federal unit which investigates potential misconduct in Federal judges and Federal attorneys. The present Attorney General is suing Arizona for daring to encode Federal law into state statute.

As I stated above, I believe that the game is essentially that of after having been busted crashing the concert and milling in the back, the defense is that the crasher was in the process of buying tickets. And it flies.

I believe you are right that a small anti illegal immigration won't have the clout to do any of this. But what can be done is inform.

Most people believe that once ICE picks up an illegal, he's gone yesterday. Not so if the illegal fights it, and at least 60% of those brought before immigration court by ICE are cut loose.

How to change that particular problem without succumbing to tyranny of the majority either way or otherwise engineering unjust prosecution and malicious rulings might be successfully suggested.

When, or if, you feel something is wrong and no internal investigation or other remedies is working, you submit a inquiry to a grand jury. The attorney general[s] are not the only people who have access to a grand jury, the people / individuals have access as well.

How about honestly? Here, let me help you out: Yeah, that's pretty much it now. Occasionally, I'll go out and do something here in Sacramento, but outside of this county, SOS doesn't organize events any more.

I've said this before, and I'll say it again now:

The tools are at your disposal to organize an event down there. The event committee is still, and always has been open to those who want to get involved. If you're not happy with the pace and location of the events that we do organize, the event committee is the place to start.

What we don't have, but maybe we should, is a mutiny committee. If you'd like us to start one where you can organize the overthrow of the current chain of command, I have no problem with that. Or perhaps you'd like a demolishing committee instead, since the title of your thread here is more akin to a dismantling of the SOS effort.
You know we're very accomodating on things like this, so just let us know which way you want to go.
:)

I'm not sure those are the best courses of action. Let's follow a third plan:

Why don't you continue with the same conduct you've been practicing for the past year? This way, when things are exactly the same in three, six or nine months from now, and yet another person asks why we haven't staged an event for fill in the blank, you can tell him/her:

A. The event committee is open, it's always been open.
B. There's just a lot of apathy out there right now, I'm seeing it everywhere and not just in immigration ...
C. We're doing pretty well for an organization people threw under the bus and tried to strangle!
D. We're here to poke, prod, encourage and assist ...
E. We can't force anyone to organize something. I can lead a horse to water ...
F. Well, we just had an election season go by, people have been pretty worried about this economy and that's keeping them busy ...

That way, when pressed on the subject, you won't have to invent new irrelevant and inaccurate excuses, you can utilize the old reliable ones that have been field tested.

When the event committee did organize, you did nothing but criticize the main person engaged in organizing. You berated her, belittled her, condescended, antagonized, impugned, and even torpedoed her in the full view of the rest of the committee. Is it any wonder that the others would be reluctant to take the initiative after witnessing that bit of savage, unwarranted, and undeserving action?
And now you'd have me stand before the remaining crew, with the executioner still sword in hand, and ask "alright, who's next?"
Hell no! That's not me. I get out and provide example instead. I'm not afraid of you either. I don't care which side of the immigration issue you're on; The treatment is still the same. And that's why we don't curtail or silence you. We're not going to take the nightingale approach, and that of several other organizations/websites that have censored you and others for perceived or real infractions. What we are going to do is let the record speak for you. So it's up to you how you want to be remembered.

As for the event committe, it is still open. We still want action, and we still welcome participation. You can apply yourself, or complain about how others don't. The former has at least a chance of success. The latter has a pre-ordained outcome. I choose the chance of success. I beg others to do the same

Respectfully to all parties here:

Has Sam and the staff at Derailamnesty.com organized and fielded an event?

Is Sam himself willing to organize and field an event in SoCal?

What is so important about titles of organizations as opposed to personal initiative?

Not baiting, sincere question.

The personal attacks (Schwilk, executioner, etc.) are a nice and imaginative addition to the excuses you've been floating for awhile, but the equation remains the same. You have an organizing committee that won't organize. Doling out 37 different, and increasingly creative, explanations for inaction and SOS atrophy, to me, Phil, Cole or whoever else broaches what is clearly a sensitive topic w/ you, doesn't change that SOS is ignored b/c it is inactive. So, when Cole remarks that it looks like most of what is done here is cut and paste, he's right.

That's the record, and I'll be happy to stand on it.

Most topics are sensitive to me; I'm a sensitive guy. And I repeat: I'm not afraid of you or your scrutiny either.

If you don't like the cut and paste; don't read it

If you don't like the effort we are doing, or you think it isn't enough; duly noted, but it carries less weight when you haven't offered something in alternative. You telling people they aren't doing enough is not the same as doing something yourself

I respectfully ask as to what is Sam's solution?

Junk the organization, change the leadership, change the membership, or step up and organize an event in Southern California?

Once again, not baiting.

Not only are you unafraid (Dude, what would or could I do to you?), you're not easily embarrassed, either. There doesn't seem to be much about SOS's ongoing decay and increasing irrelevancy that seems to phase you.

And I did offer you an alternative, and you hit the roof when I mentioned it - Close it down.

It's getting embarrassing ... although I'm confident you don't agree.

Look, there's no point belaboring this further. You and I clearly reason very differently, and this is hardly the first time we've disagreed.

When (and if) you get fed up, let me know. I'll buy the url from you. I won't continue the organization but I'd like the internet traffic.

Running the risk of "chirping", I now see potential motivation for this thread:

I respectfully submit that an offer could have been privately made. I believe the disagreeable nature of this public discussion was and is totally unnecessary.

No; I'm not afraid of embarrassment either. I would think my history of activism would have been your first clue. And yes; I'm very stubborn, and even my own bodily decay doesn't phase me.
Today, and throughout the past year, you've posted many links to your website. You're already getting free internet traffic...from an allegedly decaying, irrelevant organization no less. No need to thank us. That's what we're here for