I used to think that everyone else was lying when I was under the spell of the Nightingale.

Gheen well hes , well I guess I can't say it here what I really think of him The idiot would not have even known about the Shawna Forde/Gilchrist connection, nor would have Chelene if I hadn't pointed it out to them and it took me months to convince them of it along with Mikes involvement with Shawna(website and sleeping with her) and this was way before she killed someone. He acts likes hes God and is just worried about a "new group" coming along to take his money.(Its his fundraising time again).The man gets on my nerves. Anyway who cares what he thinks. We are the new and definately improved Save our State

You miss the entire point(s).

1. There is little or nothing to be gained by settling this. What William Gheen or Jeff Schwilk loudly proclaim has practically no impact on anything we do.

2. If you've followed the path of this moronic squabble (Gheen/Nightingale, et al. v. Gilchrist/Spencer) you realize that reasoned points will never change anyone's mind.

3. By posting your writings on this website, and the accompanying responses, you are successfully A) Giving importance and credibility to the debate, and B) dragging this fledgling organization directly into the middle of the conflict in the same fashion as did Chelene Nightingale.

Jean, I like you, I think you're far from stupid or a drama queen, but that rates up there with some of the most boneheaded moves I have seen in the past few years. I cannot imagine what possessed you to pursue this stupid argument, and in such a public fashion that included in Save Our State. There was nothing to be accomplished by what you attempted, and could more likely result in the same divisions among our membership that tore apart some of the organization we are trying to rebuild.

Dumb, dumb, dumb. I was really astounded by what you posted.

I don't agree DA,

SOS has made it clear we are allowing the discussions of intergroup issues, and I think she was making her views known among them. It takes a bit of courage to go against the grain like that, and personally I don't understand your condemnation. Certainly don't support it. But it is your opinion, so I guess we'll see how others feel too.

I'm a little unclear on what is exactly your issue with Jean, DA.

Are you condeming her for responding to Gheen, condeming her for defending SOS, or for relaying that to our readers?

I don't see how because I spelled it out pretty clearly in my last post. Reread what I wrote. Therein lies what I think are the (obvious) reasons publicly carrying on this "debate" in our forum is more than a foolish exercise.

Let me make this simpler: As soon as you can point out to me the benefit that would have accrued to us had Jean been entirely successful, you will have laid the first section of a reasonable refutation of what I stated. Let's just suppose that Jean's reasoned arguments had ever had a snowball's chance in Hell of succeeding, rather than generating the more-than-predictable blustery outburst about Gilchrist, organizational responses, choosing sides and other Nightingale-esque nonsense. You tell me what that would have been our gain.

OK, I'll start by reminding you of what came of me responding to Nightingales email campaign to discredit me after she evicted me from SOS months ago. Some truths were allowed to escape from the claws of those that have worked fervently to keep them under their control. In addition, people reading that reached out to me with their own stories, and it snowballed. I might also remind you that it was your response to that which taught me that you weren't driven from the movement by acts just like those. I had no idea you were still alive and active until then. That goes the same for numerous others that responded. And many of them are here now.

Well I'm amazed that you are so astounded. I'm astounded that you could be so disrespectful. What did you have to gain by being so? And your opinion is only 'your opinion'. I will not come on this board and do a tit for tat with you. I see that as serving no purpose. We both have a history that follows us, that's enough said. What I will say is William Gheen, Barbara Coe, Jim Gilchrist, Jeff Shwilk, and Glenn Spencer have never done anything to me and I don't consider them the enemy. I don't consider Chelene, Joe or Mike the enemy either, I just lost a great deal of respect for them for how little they thought of the members and our investment in the old organization, but I will not take that disappointment to the level where I want to destroy or weaken them.

This 'it's us or them' needs to stop. And whether it's someone from either side that declares that it should stop, to me is not important. I'm not going to waste my energy and time continuing to criticize others in this movement, even you. There is nothing to be gained by it. But unlike you and your opinion, I do feel that extending an olive branch may have its rewards. What was there to gain by not doing it? Keeping the status quo?

Disrespectul? I don't recall being the party who unilaterally decided to inject our organization in a toxic squabble we largely left behind when we discarded Chelene Nightingale, Janet Dennis, Mike Williams, et al with the dead husk of the former corporate entity.

You keep repeating, Jean, that you have never had problems with A, B, C, D etc. and that you don't consider them enemies. So what? Who cares? Of what relevance is it? You're Switzerland, I believe you. Why do you deem this so important and keep waving it around as some justification?

Let's examine what you see fit to accomplish on our behalves.

1. This 'it's us or them' needs to stop.

OK, has it been stopped? Did Gheen react in the way you were hoping? What did you deem to be the chances that he would when you unilaterally undertook this little heart-to-heart?

2. I do feel that extending an olive branch may have its rewards.

Great, what were they going to be? Did you realize those rewards? What did you figure the odds were you'd be coming back with these tucked under your arm when you saw fit to speak for Save Our State?