We need talking points, give us your thoughts
We need some talking points for the upcoming rally that members can use when being addressed by the media or others. Please give some suggestions, such as the financial impact with facts cited from reliable sources, or social impacts on neighborhoods such as crime.
Please participate because your input is important. Some of you live great distances from where we’re having the rally, but your input can still be used. |
I don't have statistics at hand this moment, but:
The displacement of American workers in whole industries since the early 1980's. why real wages have fallen like a rock tossed into a well since the early 1980's. Education, costs and results now vs. 1960's - what has changed and why. Why is it that Utah spends the least on education with high results, and why California is cranking out illiterate kids with - regardless of what the CTA peddles - over half our runaway state budget going to education. This would have to be nuanced - Elements of Mexican and Latin American cultures which, if not diluted and assimilated to a great degree, brings Latin American problems with them. Such as: We at least have a pretension of blind justice in this country and a lot of times it works, but a Mexican will generally equate hiring an attorney with bribing the judge, as is the proper course in Mexico. The Mexican system of "good old boy" "networking", nepotism, ubiquitous bribery and shake downs in general and the palm greasing necessary in order to do business, and general corruption in which embezzlement from public and private employers is considered to be deserved compensation. It leaves our ciminally bent scum in high places far behind in the dust. Mexican fatalism and hopelessness for change imbedded within the culture and expressed through its citizens. Welfare fraud and federal subsidization of illegality needs to be brought out as well, but how to do it without being characterized as foaming at the mouth bigots. Perhaps pictures contrasting the homes of "Latino activist" legislators and others who live on the hill and run down barrios which they claim are "vibrant communities enriching America". Pre 1980 pictures depicting the change would probably be essential. It would be interesting to see what sort of home Janet Murguia lives in and where: making her living peddling racial discord, I bet she doesn't live in the middle of what she insists is good for the rest of us. Nor do I believe she would actually enjoy it. That might be a good exercise for other public and "activist" figures as well. How about the the reality disconnect and real estate gulf that Barbara Boxer has between herself the average American Citizen - and the fact that she doesn't have to live with the results of her preferred immigration legislation. I would like to see something which would show the difference between Mexican Nationals and those who pretend to be Mexican - and how many actually regard each other when no one else is around to see their dirt - but that truth would be hard to get across with the sheer mountain of propaganda which has been dispensed and digested over the last forty years and all the people who gain in some manner from perpetuating the myth. |
Here is Murguia's official NCLR biography. She for sure doesn't slum around in San'tana.
She's probably as distant from Mexico as I am (white boy who grew up in California), and in the same reality disconnect as Boxer. It's all about race. Quote:
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Races in Kansas City: • White Non-Hispanic (48.9%) • Black (30.1%) • Hispanic (16.8%) • Other race (8.6%) • Two or more races (3.0%) • American Indian (1.7%) • Other Asian (1.1%) Ancestries: German (11.5%), Irish (8.3%), United States (6.2%), English (4.8%), French (1.8%), Polish (1.3%). Population density: 1147 people per square mile (low) • High school or higher: 73.4% • Bachelor's degree or higher: 11.7% • Graduate or professional degree: 4.3% • Unemployed: 8.5% • Mean travel time to work: 21.4 minutes Percentage of residents living in poverty in 2008: 20.9% 14,647 residents are foreign born (8.1% Latin America, 1.2% Asia). This city: 10.0% Kansas: 5.0% Let’s compare that with East Los Angeles Races in East Los Angeles: • Hispanic (96.8%) • Other race (54.0%) • Two or more races (4.2%) • White Non-Hispanic (1.8%) • American Indian (1.7%) • Percentage of residents living in poverty in 2008: 25.5% 60,605 residents are foreign born (48.2% Latin America). This place: 48.8% California: 26.2% Ancestries: United States (1.4%). Population density: 17279 people per square mile (very high). Maywood, California Races in Maywood: • Hispanic (96.3%) • Other race (50.5%) • Two or more races (4.5%) • White Non-Hispanic (2.6%) • American Indian (1.4%) Population density: 24007 people per square mile (very high). For population 25 years and over in Maywood * High school or higher: 29.6% * Bachelor's degree or higher: 2.3% * Graduate or professional degree: 0.8% * Unemployed: 11.4% * Mean travel time to work: 29.2 minutes Read more: http://www.city-data.com/city/Maywoo...#ixzz0bEWmow2y 15,490 residents are foreign born (54.8% Latin America). This city: 55.2% California: 26.2% Residents with income below the poverty level in 2008: This city: 24.5% Whole state: 14.2% Residents with income below 50% of the poverty level in 2008: This city: 8.5% Whole state: 6.3% This city: 4.3 people California: 2.9 people Percentage of family households: This city: 88.1% Whole state: 68.9% Percentage of households with unmarried partners: This city: 8.4% Whole state: 5.9% |
I haven't verified it, but this is supposed to be a Janet Murgia quote. If it really is, it just goes to show how whacked out a person can get:
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She also had something to do with producing Desperate Housewives as well as everything else she has her fingers into.. |
Another article about Murguia.
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• "The U.S. Census Bureau showed that the nation's immigrant population (legal and illegal) reached nearly 38 million in March 2007, one-third of which are comprised of illegal immigrants."
(Center for Immigration Studies). "There are approximately 7.7 million illegal aliens employed in U.S. jobs in 2008." (NumbersUSA). "A 1997 study by the American Academy of Sciences found that the cheap labor of illegal immigrants and poor immigrants caused a 44% decrease in wages among the poorest Americans from 1980 to 1994." (Center for Immigration Studies). • "Amnesty for illegal immigrants will cause costs to increase significantly from $10.4 billion a year to $28.8 billion. This is because an amnesty program would transform an illegal immigrant to an "unskilled immigrant with legal status" who could access various government programs. However, due to low income, these "unskilled immigrants with legal status" would likely make very modest tax payments." (Center for Immigration Studies). • "Tax payments in illegal households are only 28% of other households primarily due to much lower levels in education, which subsequently results in low incomes and even lower tax payments." (Center for Immigration Studies). • "A strategy of attrition through enforcement, which includes mandatory workplace verification and measures to curb misuse of Social Security numbers, could reduce the illegal population by as many as 1.5 million illegal immigrants each year." (Center for Immigration Studies). • " Illegal immigrants collectively represent a group that is a significant menace to the public. 80% have committed serious crimes in addition to immigration violations, and 40% have violent crime histories." (Center for Immigration Studies). • "25-50% of all gangsters arrested in the criminal gang suppression efforts in northern and western Virginia are estimated to be illegal immigrants." (Study for Immigration Studies). More found here: http://www.endillegalimmigration.com...cs/index.shtml |
Here is some information on Murguia at Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janet_Murgu%C3%ADa I think it is a poor strategy to confront personalities at public rallies, especially when all they represent is some leadership in some opposition organization. This rally would be a good time and place to remind everyone that this immigration issue is not strictly a Mexican problem, but a problem from all different countries encompasing all different races, Europeans as well. And also it is a problem causing suffering in other countries besides the US and European countries as well. This would completely disarm the race baiting Reconquistas and leave them carrying water for people outside their organization -- people who are not latinos -- and people in other countries. The more you emphasize the universal nature of the problem, the more pointless the attendence of people from the NCLR will be, since they will be the only people who show up in support of illegal immigration. Everybody else will be getting a free ride from them. And any efforts on their parts to pick up the slack from anyone else is bound to carry them into the issue of terrorism from immigrant communities, something they will most certainly want to be avoiding. A little news item to meditate on: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8435857.stm Yet another person from a Muslim country abuses some country's vital gun laws, this time it is personal not religious, but who can tell the difference any more? |
Interesting exercise - Go to this url: www.janetmurguia.com
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This site is hosted on an old Dell Optiplex in my home: http://declinetostate.dyndns.org/ I don't always leave the thing on, so you may not find it and it's not getting much business anyway. But it gives you an idea of what is possible. The software for the site is phpBB. |
This thread is for talking points. What we need are facts with numbers and data that can be used by those attending if asked why they are there. We don't want anyone talking to the media except those designated to do so. Which will be those who are speaking at the rally. Another suggestion is that Naui is to be completely ignored, and I mean completely.
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The idea is to show the disconnect with reality on an average person's level. Murguia doesn't seem to me to have much more of a personal connection with contemporary illegals than I do - her background, parents emphasizing education, accomplishments, all that high dollar traveling, the style in which she lives, where she lives... She doesn't wait for the bus on Roscoe and Van Nuys at six o clock every morning. And her parents might have even emphasized English - like some Hispanics of older families I know. One of her degrees is in Spanish Language. Why go through all that trouble if she was fluent and not obsessed about race equaling culture, language, and the rest of it? Her background is not typical of the average child of illegal aliens over the last thirty years or so. What does she really know about the grit of the contemporary barrio? I don't believe she has time in her schedule to do more than listen to a few hyped stories and shake hands while kissing two or three baby's, then it's off to the next speech, fund gathering, or political arm twisting. And yet her major preoccupation is about race and victimization concerning people whose Mexico is not the Mexico of her parent's memories. And the memories of any of those people are not her memories, she's just borrowing second hand perception as well as borrowing foreign nationality. An extensive education, an obsessed life mission, and political connections out the wazoo. She might have been on a totally different path in life if it had been not been for Mecha and Chicano studies in her education. |
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It sounds like you are making observations about her and illegals that are a closs parallel to Obama and African Americans. It's almost like there is a pattern or template. But is Marguia really a good talking point for this rally, or any rally? Is this really a defensive reaction against all this strife we have been hearing from the Minutemen and SOS itself? That might be a little shallow and obvious. |
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There are quite a few facts and figures I have presented in the past concerning education of the children of illegals and other situations concerning illegals. The organizer of the rally moved them from another site to this site. It's a rally concerning illegal immigration, not Murguia. No one has to even bring up Murguia's name. However, even though disconnected from the reality of illegal immigration, she nevertheless sees much of what we do - with a whacked out race based solution which is unworkable and wastes my tax dollars. Murgia is also an example of how obsession for a cause defeats the desired results of a cause. There's lots of answers to questions one could derive from Murguia and those like her, including their quotes. ** You completely lost me on the bit about strife, and this is not the thread to be bringing it up. |
I think it is important to speak firmly, aggressively and without apology for America's right to exist and defend itself against foreign invasion. Too many Americans have a whiny, apologetic tone. Try these:
"Illegal aliens are criminals who broke the law to take jobs, heathcare and education from American citizens. They are are transforming American cities into Mexican slums. Americans have a moral and legal right to defend American civilization from this destruction by people who have no right to be here." "Illegal aliens should work hard creating a better life in their own land, not coming here and ruining ours." "America has a right to exist and defend itself against foreign invasion. America has have as much right to defend against a Mexican invasion today as it did against threatened German and Japanese invasions in WW2. America was not obligated to surrender to Japan or Germany because most Japanese and Germans are 'hardworking people who want a better life.' America is not obligated to surrender to Mexican conquest today. " "Illegal aliens are taking American jobs, bankrupting American Hospitals, degrading American public schools, and transforming American cities into filthy stinking Mexican slums. Illegal aliens are invaders who have no legal right to be here. They already have their own country and they should respect our right to have ours." "Mexico is a large wealthy country and it's wrong to force American workers to pay taxes to care for Mexican refugees." |
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Official rule number 1 is Naui is to be completely ignored, no if ands or buts. |
ATTA GIRL JEAN. First New Years Rule. :):)
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If you can't resist from repeating the little roach's name, then you are not ignoring him.
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Agreed! I hope we can get everyone else to not speak a word to that damned butt bug!:D
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See if you think this is still speaking firmly, aggressively and without apology: "Illegal aliens are criminals who broke the law to take jobs, heathcare and education from American citizens. They are are transforming American cities into slums. Americans have a moral and legal right to defend American civilization from this destruction by people who have no right to be here." "Illegal aliens should work hard creating a better life in their own land, not coming here and ruining ours." "America has a right to exist and defend itself against foreign invasion. America has have as much right to defend against an immigrant invasion today as it did against threatened German and Japanese invasions in WW2. America was not obligated to surrender to Japan or Germany because most Japanese and Germans are 'hardworking people who want a better life.'" "Illegal aliens are taking American jobs, bankrupting American Hospitals, degrading American public schools, and transforming American cities into filthy stinking slums. Illegal aliens are invaders who have no legal right to be here. They already have their own country and they should respect our right to have ours." "It's wrong to force American workers to pay taxes to care for refugees." |
What we need are some facts with hard numbers. Numbers such as "Last year illegals cost the taxpayer $???? for education in ??? county. Or "The cost of medical for one year in ???? county was ????. We need hard facts and legitimate sources to cite. Opinions are easy and we all have one, but to counter with accurate data that can be backed up is the best way to go. We need to accentuate the financial impact in both tax dollars used and job loss.
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I am so sick of infiltrators who undermine resistance with these kinds of comments. You will never defeat an enemy if you don't identify them.We're being invaded and overrun by Mexican hordes, not Canadian or Russians. |
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Yes, illegal immigrants are the enemy and anyone who tolerates illegal immigrants just because they are of European descent is an infiltrator and a subversive against the global struggle against that enemy. The US is not the only country who is struggling against illegal immigrants. Every country has a right to protect itself against people coming into the country who are not citizens of that country. China, India, Russia and even Mexico have the right and should be encouraged to enforce that right and be able to beat back and beat down tides of people swarming into their country. |
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This thread has gotten off topic. We need talking points with hard facts, figures and where they come from.
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Here is an inflation calculator I found which might be handy:
For one trade in housing construction, $10.00 an hour was a good wage non union in California in 1980. So, to stay even, one would have to make $27.41. However, I have seen adds in the paper, before the crash, for around $16.00 an hour. And that's if you are GOOD. I believe that quite a few illegals were working for less, but that's not a hard fact. Union scale in that trade in 1981 added up to $16.00 and change an hour if health and welfare were added in (I believe the wage by itself was $11.00 +) I believe scale (wage only) in 2005 was about $25.00. Let's say wage only was $11.35 hr... $24.26 in 2005, so union kept up with wage only... Non - Union from 1980 to 2005 @ $9.50 hr - 2005 would be $23.57 to stay even. That's a $7.57 hr difference. It doesn't have a date on it but it's in California... Refers to Union Scale and non union wage: I could be wrong, but I believe the non union wages cited are a tad high. CA Wages, Brick Masons union median range New, no experience: $10.00 $9.00 – $10.00 New, experienced: $17.00 $12.00 – $30.00 3 yrs+ experience: $28.00 $25.00 – $38.00 CA Wages, Concreete & Terrazzo Finishers nonunion median range New, no experience: $12.08 $11.51 – $12.81 New, experienced: $16.97 $13.42 – $19.18 3 yrs+ experience: $19.46 $14.14 – $22.05 union median range New, no experience: NA NA New, experienced: $22.00 $19.00 – $23.00 3 yrs+ experience: $23.00 $21.00 – $26.00 CA Wages, Plasterers & Stucco Masons union median range New, no experience: $10.00 $6.00 – $20.00 New, experienced: $18.00 $13.00 – $20.00 3 yrs+ experience: $24.00 $20.00 – $24.00 Apprentices start at 65% of the basic journey rate and receive a 5% increase each six months until they reach 90% of the journey rate, as the apprentice completes the necessary course work and on-the-job training. http://www.proteusinc.org/jobseekvid...eer/mason.html |
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